I am teaching my son this.

I am applying that to someone right now. Amazing some of the immature things a person will do to try and get your attention. As Rand said reason is not automatic, this person clearly doesn't understand so I am leaving them alone.

Nice. Martial Arts are consistent with Objectivism because I believe they teach you not to initiate force. Should it be necessary then you can kick some serious butt.

Teaching somebody the finer points of debate is nice and all, but my boy just got his black belt...just in case. Frankly, bullies understand a knuckle sandwich delivered through busted teeth. Works every time. Remember that force is still a language often still spoken.

Excellent points Rock. I still think that the Objectivist philosophy is the best for preparing young people to deal with this issue. I think you are right about how it has changed. I wouldn't be surprised if Facebook take a stronger stance soon against on;ine bullying.

As tough a character as Dagny was I hadn't thought of that. She stood up to it but she was being bullied. Maybe the lesson from Rand was that sometimes it's best to walk away.

Bullying is a more complex issue today, then it was in Rand's day. While kids have always had to have a certain thickness to their skins, today, the bullying is persistent. Words can strike, and fall to the ground, but we are now raising our children in a time where the words don't disappear. A single insult written on social media will be seen over and over. Add to that the fact that the insult can then be liked by many people who probably wouldn't have been there had the insult been verbal, and it is like an entire gym chanting the insult over and over. The same social media that connects them to the people who love and praise them also shows the vile messages. They have no where to turn in the digital realm to escape it.

It's easy to say they just need tougher skin, but it's not the same issues faced even 20 years ago in school. I think in some regards, and in general, the kids today have tougher skin than they did in Rand's day.

I say this not saying we don't need to continue to work on toughening their skin, but educating the masses to realize that there is a difference between verbally attacking someone, and digitally doing so is also important. When you say something mean, you feel bad. When you write something mean, there's a certain amount of anonymity that allows the bully to not have the negative effects of the action while amplifying the negative effects on the receiver of the attack.

I agree. I believe the government bullies all of us. In Atlas shrugged, Dagny is bullied by the government, and continues to take it. Rather than standing up to the bullies in the only way she could, she wears herself out in attempting to keep everything alive. She follows the rules the bullies require of her. I think America is in a very similar state, where we're all fighting, but still attempting to follow the rules set by the same people who are bullying us. All it does is make us tired, which gives them more power. We're in a dangerous place. Thank goodness for Galt's Gulch!

Thank you Zen.

Oh I think O's see it as attempts to bully, but also recognize the lack of performance and self esteem behind it. Remember that to an O, self defense is not something to feel guilty about, though walking around or away from is not to be ashamed of either. And, yes I very much agree that instilling the principles of Objectivism at an early age would definitely reduce bullying.

By the way, good post rich.

I wonder if a true Objectivist even sees it as bullying? As Rand said it is best to ignore those who don't use reason. Teaching children the principles of Objectivism would go a long way in reducing bullying problems.

I think it is more weighing consequences and goals. but Xenok's point is well taken

In other words....

If you can't dazzle em with brilliance, baffle them with BS.

It's not that many years ago since one of the significant challenges to be overcome in childhood was to develop sufficient self esteem to be able to face down or 'deal with' the bullies in life. That was once seen as a necessary part of development and readiness to deal with adult life. It seems to me that Ayn Rand succeeded in that challenge. I have to say that I've never met a bully that could convince me to run, comply, or cry--but I met many that tried, and still do today. I suspect that Rand did too.

I hadn't thought of that. I guess the hard core O's go Galt but any staying within the system are basically being bullied by the Government.

Do you pay your income tax, property tax.... then are you not being bullied? You pay under the threat of if you do not you're property or your liberty will be removed.

Its not different than the bully in grade school that wanted your lunch money or he would beat you up. The same principles are at play and we can certifiably be bullied regardless of our principles. It only ends when enough of us say no more and refuse to be bullied any longer.

Yes.

Unrecognized is a good point. Once a true O figured it out, though, then all hell would break loose. Like Hank when he figured it all out.

They were untrained O's. They needed someone to help them along the way, much as Rand helped many of us realize we were right all along. I used Lillian and Jim as examples of the unrecognized bullies in their lives. Bullies are saboteurs. Edited for typo.

Were they Objectivists? I see Hank as a character who learned along the way. Cheryl would have learned but Jim destroyed her before she could. I also don't think a true O would feel guilty about anything.

Yes. O's can be bullied. Bullies can come in many forms. Not all of them give you wedgies, and steal your lunch money. The best bullies are very subtle and sneaky in their bullying and use tactics like making you feel guilty, or mean etc. to get what they want. I would call Lillian a bully to Hank, and Jiim a bully to Cheryl. Jim was not as skilled as Lillian. Sometimes it takes a while to realize you are being bullied.

Thanks, Rich.

Well said JB.