It's as if our country is being run by 12 year olds too busy to play with their toys rather than take care of business.

Exactly. Half of all illegals came in legally and simply overstayed their visas. A wall won't do anything to stop them.

If I wanted to stop people coming in that way, I would make everyone show their papers as they leave the US. That way the government would at least know who has overstayed their visas, so they won't just get issued new ones when they feel like coming back a second or third time. Right now DHS doesn't even collect that information, so it's easy to repeat the process of "get a tourist visa and overstay it" multiple times.

I agree in general. However, as long as we pay taxes to support various socialist government features, some necessary, those who seek these features without contributing are looters. That is the valid objection. Not taking jobs away from those who refuse to do them for a reasonable wage.

I am selective about the people who are welcome
in my home, and ol' drop-out Al might have made
the cut! -- j
.

point. There are good people who want a chance-at capitalism. "us" vs "them" we should have never let Einstein in under your criteria

if it was only legal....... there would be serious action
where I come from. -- j
.

I'll help round up the latter...

my hired employees are letting them in -- the government.

this is my country;;; I volunteered to die for it when I
took the oath in '71. . u.s.-born looters are the enemy, to me,
just as those born elsewhere. . if I could get away
with it, I would deport them as well. . to antarctica
with a raincoat. -- j

p.s. I do include u.s.-born looters like, well, elected
representatives in d.c.
.

you aren't. How are you letting them into YOUR "home"? are you also sanctioning US born looters into your "home" as well? what about them?

I see this statement in reply to my post. What is its relevance? Or was it supposed to reply to something else? What is this "you have to" you are referring to, and what "rut" are you referring to?

Oh, you mean the giant Welfare State free-stuff-magnet sucking sound? No crickets from me on that. Zero benefits for illegal aliens, but I do believe they should be treated humanely as they are deported. Need to say bye-bye to the "anchor baby" concept as well when the child is of illegal alien parentage. Now, THAT should remove the giant Welfare State free-stuff-magnet as pertains to illegal aliens making that argument moot. Pragmatic enough?

As for addressing the giant Welfare State for actual citizens, that's a subject of another thread.

However, The US Constitution does have a Property clause, and the Enclave clause acknowledges the property of the US government as being arsenals, forts, dockyards, etc for national defense.

K, the simple fact that our national success results in
looters and moochers being attracted here ... does
not sanction their supplanting our citizens in the
competition for life, against our laws. . I do not allow
just anyone into my home and care for them. -- j
.

The government of Mexico is indeed bad. They stand by their policies while millions of their own citizens flee to survive over here. It should be a serious message to their government to get out of the way and let the people there make their own lives better.

I had a plant there about 10 years ago, the taxes on people making more than the minimum wage were upwards of 60%. It didnt pay for people to better themselves over and above minimum wages. If we had to hire people worth more than the minimum wage, they got an addtional identity and we made out two checks on payday, each for the minimum wage. Pretty stupid.

your pragmatic approach has merit-however, why do so many focus on immigration and it is crickets on welfare state? be pragmatic about THAT

How about repairing their image by working to stop the illegal border crossings? A PR effort. In this case it's like giving a glass of water to someone who is seriously bleeding. A nice gesture that doesn't solve the problem.

"I wonder how many "laws" you break daily that you don't even know about" - Irrelevant. If I unknowingly break law X it has nothing to do with you deliberately and knowingly breaking law Y.

"there are so many antiquated (from Spain) laws..." - Also irrelevant to the USA. This is Mexico's problem. The fact that the USA is going down the same road is OUR problem, not Mexico's.

"Objectivism rejects "us" vs "them" mentality" - Sounds good on paper, but in real life you have to deal with real problems. In AS the Gulch was hidden and protected to keep looters and moochers (presumably them) out so the strikers (presumably us) wouldn't get raided and overrun. Gulch entry was by invitation only, which is even more stringent than lining up and applying for legal entry to the USA.

So Mexico thinks it has a PR problem that requires a diplomatic solution.
Yeah, right.
Me dino would only want to talk to that diplomat about how Mexico handles its own southern border. Until the man screamed. And even then I would refuse to change the subject.

Means respect MY/OUR individual property no matter where on earth...simple concept.
Not government land...AMERICAN land...this is our country...if everyone in the world was honest, respectful, fully conscious with a conscience had mutuality with everyone, everyone on the same page...then countries would not need boarders.
No...all humans are NOT conscious and if not conscious do not qualify as a "being"...they are only an entity. It's obvious, obobo, hiltery, sorass and 100,000's of others in the kakistocracy and in other countries are pagan bicameral barbaric, ignorant idiots.
An if a mexican is in a hellhole...he still could ask to come in politely and assimilate into our culture, respect our laws and speak our language,,,no different than anyone else moving to a different country.
Someday...far, far, off into the distant future...maybe we'll all grow up and be respectful. conscious, self ruling and be able to reason.

there is no such concept as "the property of America" the govt should not own property. Only private property rights should be acknowledged. Trespass is a separate issue, but handled procedural-ly. Take that to the courts. "bodies of many" You mean Brian Tierry who was killed with a gun the ATF let "walk"? "respect the space on Earth"? what does this mean? being born in the US does not "earn you a damned thing except a tax bill in your future. "conscious human beings" all human beings are conscious by definition. They are rational. A starving mexican farmer is rational to get his family the heck out of a hellhole situation. .

They violate the property of America, of the land owners that are on the boarder, not to mention the property of the bodies of many.
We can't have open boarders anywhere unless EVERYONE will naturally knock upon your door and ask to come in, respect the space on earth you've earned and paid for and respect your person....that may very well may take another 1000 years, provided we survive, provided we all grow up and all become "Conscious" human beings...right now...maybe only 1/2 of us are.