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Colleges are Diversifying? Not Exactly

Posted by $ SarahMontalbano 8 years, 1 month ago to Education
43 comments | Share | Flag

Mamaemma and some others have told me about the experiences of their sons, daughters, and themselves in colleges due to their libertarian/Objectivist/non-conformational views. I will probably get in some troubles because of my views. Does anyone have experiences, advice, or comments to share related to this?

One quick note: Since I am not a subscriber to the Wall Street Journal, I wasn't able to access the article they based this off of. It seems to be interesting; the title is "The One Kind of Diversity Colleges Avoid" and the link is found in the article, for anyone who wants to read it.


All Comments

  • Posted by Zenphamy 8 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Sarah; I would think an internship would be an excellent opportunity to experience. I wish you the best in your choices.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    you sound like the seasoned student whom you need
    to be in this strange world. . please know that there are
    many of us on here who wish you the very best daily --
    like we were, or are, praying for your future. . my wife
    and I never had kids, so you are "there" for us in a
    sense. . be the future, Sarah, and there is hope!!! -- john
    .
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  • Posted by richrobinson 8 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    I did some searches on Ayn Rand a while back and was surprised to see Rand clubs in some colleges. Very encouraging sign. Best of luck Sarah.
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Every college I look at, I look in their campus club directories for an Objectivism/Ayn Rand club. Haven't found one yet, but the existence of The Undercurrent gives me some hope.
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Just today I was reading The Romantic Manifesto in class, and one of my acquaintances said to me, "Ew, Ayn Rand!" in a teasing voice. I've already learned to be cautious. The only thing that spared me was that it is one of her lesser-known and lesser-discussed works and he didn't have background knowledge to attack with.
    I've grown very cautious.
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    This is most likely what I'll do. I'll probably be able to work in an undergrad research lab, then get paid (a small amount) to research and teach as a grad student.
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Great suggestion! My future career involves heavy research (I'm planning on molecular biology) so it would be useful to find some work in the field. However, many scholarships (such as the Alaska Performance Scholarship which may be cut) can be voided if I do not go directly into college. If financial concerns were of no issue I would do as you say, Zen, but they unfortunately are. In addition, although it would not be impossible to find work, most laboratories in the field I'm interested in require a Master's or PhD just to get in a door. Not saying that I couldn't apply for a receptionist job or other things, though. I plan on doing at least one intern ship over next summer, or working.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 1 month ago
    Sarah, in response to Zen's comment, one option is
    working while going to school. . I worked as a drafter
    while learning engineering and got a chance to interact
    with the engineers who were designing the machine
    (a railroad tie replacement machine, then) and it taught me
    to learn the subject first, and then work for a grade.
    I had those priorities set equal, before that. -- j
    .
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  • Posted by Flootus5 8 years, 1 month ago
    I earned two degrees in geology, primarily back in the 70's. I recommend maintaining a sharp radar of situational awareness especially in regard to the professors. One consistent trend I saw was that, by far and away, the best professors were those that had spent significant time employed in industry.

    The best example I recall is the comparison of two different professors of Economic Geology I had. In my senior year I had a professor that had just retired from 40 years in the mining industry. He recommended a textbook on Ore Deposits. A new type each week. Invariably he would bring in his own specimens from world class mines featured in the book saying that when he was there the thinking was such and such as to the genesis of the deposit. Fascinating. I was hooked.

    So, in grad school I took another graduate level Economic Geology course. The guy was worthless. Had never been in industry, all academic and limited to a rare type of ore deposit completely unrepresentative of most of the world. He was substituting for the main professor that taught the course that had suddenly gone on sabbatical. I had chosen the original economic guy to be on my thesis committee and now I was also stuck with the substitute guy on my committee. I had many questions regarding ore specimens from my thesis area and made an appointment with him for consultation. I would hand him a specimen from my box and inquire about the alteration or the mineralogy. He would limp wristedly hold the rock and then drop it back into the box without answering. After several specimens the look on my face prompted him to say "I don't have much experience with hydrothermal deposits". That only constitutes about 90% of all economic ore deposits. Worthless.

    Long story short, he never gained tenure and was actually fired. So he starts a consulting business for the gold exploration business in Arizona. I ran into him in the halls of the USGS one day. Cordial. He asked me what I was up to. I told him I was staying reasonably busy doing consulting and contracting work for the gold exploration business. Not only that, but I co-owned a gold mine with visible gold in veins at the surface. I had a specimen in my jacket pocket and showed it to him. He looked at it quick and said "nice pyrite". Once again, the look on my face gave him pause. He looked again and said "that's gold isn't it?" Uh, yeah.

    I was not worried about competition in the business from him.
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 8 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    I began college thinking I might become an attorney. Spent the next summer working with an attorney friend in his office doing scut work. Found out just how boring and mundane most of the work was and got introduced to court assigned representation of clients and learned who I might wind up having to represent. That was it. Quickly changed to engineering. Then went on to change careers (all utilizing engineering directly, design, project, field, management, business owner) three times.

    Amazingly (maybe not so much), still found myself involved with law years later on; contract and contract claims, administrative/regulatory law.
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 8 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Exactly. I can't think of a career or work environment that colleges teach how to get the work done or what the work actually entails on a day by day basis.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 1 month ago
    I went into engineering and nearly avoided this problem;;;
    however, carrying AS around campus was problem
    enough! . I was in machine design and remain
    convinced to this day that I lost a letter grade more
    than once because of it. . even in engineering in
    the '66-70 interval. . you may want to be cautious
    about your self-revelation on campus, Sarah. -- j

    p.s. of course, I was flaunting Rand -- one need not
    do that to engender friendships, but I wanted to try.
    .
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 1 month ago
    I can't be of much help. Things have changed greatly since I was in college. However, son #1 went to a tech school and had no problems in that area. Son #2 couldn't ever keep quiet when something was said that he found to be radically untrue, and was constantly arguing with everyone from professors, to instructors to students. He finally said, "The hell with this" and devoted himself full time to a part time business he had started and was soon making enough money to buy his first house.
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  • Posted by richrobinson 8 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Solves a lot of problems. :-) If this country is going to turn around then we need to get our views more represented at Colleges and Universities. There is an upheaval going on in my opinion but I'm not sure what direction we're going. Curious to hear how many like minded students you find.
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  • Posted by Joseph23006 8 years, 1 month ago
    College's purpose is not to graduate a person who has fully formed and unchangeable notions. Some disciplines deal in near absolutes like the sciences or mathematics, others deal in abstractions such as literature or philosophy which can continuously change in the light of new facts or ideas. The diversity of race, ethnic, gender, and cultural students is a good thing but not at the expense of diversity in ideas, thinking, or tolerance of opposing views. This last seems to be ovetaking campuses around the country. I didn't graduate with a set of preconceived notions but with the ability to think, to process different ideas; I'm surprised how much I learned in the nearly fifty years since graduation!
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  • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 1 month ago
    Unfortunately, our current education system and even culture since the 1960's has been all about making the 4-yr college degree a necessity in life. I disagree with this notion, as it props up the self-importance and the notion that college professors are a necessity. There are many jobs (especially in tech where I'm at) where a university degree is virtually worthless - if offered at all. We will always need good electricians, mechanics, machinists, and many other manual labor positions which are much better served by an apprenticeship model, and I think we have gone too far away from this mentality.

    So having worked my way (full time job + full time school + wife + kids) through my entire undergraduate and graduate career, I will tell you that the first thing you need to figure out is what kind of work you enjoy. Next, figure out how much that is worth to you in terms of education and include in that evaluation the costs of obtaining the education and the lifetime earnings of that position. If you aren't paying for your education in <5 years, you are either in the wrong subject or attending the wrong school.

    Next, research the aid you can qualify for. This isn't mooching. Pell Grants are a reimbursement on your taxes and the businesses which offer scholarships, etc. get tax write-offs. Take advantage of everything you can find. Many large universities have endowment funds in billions of dollars and can afford to pay down their own hyper-inflated costs.

    Last, as the poet says "Get 'er done!". School is a means to an end. Treat it as such. Don't work yourself to death, but prioritize your education over the parties. (I do heartily endorse the semester-ending pizza-study party just before finals week, however!) And don't go spending your money on vacation trips to Europe or Baha and that nonsense while in school. Reward yourself when you walk that aisle with cap on head and braids on your shoulders.

    You'll probably have to take a philosophy class or some other taught by some self-important progressive. I did, refused to compromise on my end paper position and though I had an A to that point ended up with a B in the class. My principles were more important to me than assuaging the ego of a university professor who couldn't even bother to put up a logical argument and so resorted to simply grading me down. Realize that such are beneath you as a thinking adult. Move on.
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  • Posted by $ rainman0720 8 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    "...is for you to learn how to learn...:. Exceptionally well said.

    I didn't graduate from college knowing everything; but I did graduate from college knowing how to figure anything out that I didn't know.
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  • Posted by $ Susanne 8 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Absolutely... also you will quickly discover if what you think you want for a career is really what you DO want for a career. Nothing can wake you up to something you abhor, or realizing that the planned 4 year (or in some cases 8-11 year) degree will get you a net paycheck in the low to mid 20's, than actually working in the field.

    A number of my attorney friends, as well as those who wanted to become educators (to counter the current spate of statist nanny-programmers) are learning this firsthand.
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  • Posted by richrobinson 8 years, 1 month ago
    You seem to be strong in your beliefs. Keep that strength of conviction. I run a small retail business and I have realized that I have to pick my battles. Some people are a waste of my time. Always remember:

    “Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Leave them alone.”

    If that fails you can always borrow my toaster.
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  • Posted by Lucky 8 years, 1 month ago
    Consider your real reasons for entering college. It may simply be to obtain credentials, if so, is the price to pay in insincerity too high?
    (I love travel and meeting people. I care about the environment, concerned about carbon, and want to stop racism .. ) If you are here you know the passwords.

    Another approach is to avoid any subject in what are called the social sciences, instead go for ' ..the outliers .. engineering and similar professional schools'.
    Choice of school, as jbrenner says.

    Yes the article focuses on faculty, but if there is an interview to enter as a student, be prepared.
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