Apple says investigators ruined best way to access terrorist data

Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 2 months ago to Government
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So Apple is saying they told the FBI how they could get a backup of data from the phone , but the FBI told San Bernadino to reset the password, which hosed it. And what about their personal phones they destroyed? It would seem those sources would be much better mined than the 45 days or so of info that may or may not be on this one phone. It could be interpreted as the FBI really wanting that backdoor into all phones, and not about this one.
SOURCE URL: http://www.cnet.com/news/apple-says-investigators-ruined-most-promising-way-to-access-terrorist-data/#ftag=YHF65cbda0


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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 8 years, 2 months ago
    Well, government usually thinks it knows best how to do things.
    "Those who are willing to sac-
    rifice liberty for security will in the end have and
    deserve neither."
    The Fourth Amendment is one thing. But
    Apple being commanded to create something?!
    ---A plain attempt to violate Number Thirteen.
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  • Posted by scojohnson 8 years, 2 months ago
    It's my strongly held belief, that when presented with a valid search warrant, particularly in a case like this where the suspect is dead, seeking evidence of broader conspiracy is always in the public's interest to do.

    However, a subpoena & search warrant are instruments to compel testimony and to turn over evidence... there isn't anything to turn over here, they are using it to compel Apple to do their investigation for them - which I strongly object to. While its true that there isn't a criminal investigation here, the guy is dead, so evidence tampering isn't an issue - the issue is common sense.

    1.) They destroyed their personal phones.

    2.) Do we really think the guy would be leading a terrorist mastermind network from the $99 iPhone 5C his employer (the County of San Bernardino) gave him?

    3.) I completely support Apple's perspective, if you have a search warrant for a house, and there is a safe in the house, you don't go to the safe company and demand a master key that opens any safe in the world. This is stupid. How is this any different than presenting a search warrant to Goldman Sachs or someone at the front door and they have 50 people in the backroom shredding documents as fast as they can... or simple corporate policy to 'shred' every document when no longer needed.

    4.) I agree with Apple as well, they botched the backups, obviously by someone who had no idea what they were doing, its not Apple's fault or problem. If anything, this is a wakeup call to America for how much the rest of us here have known all along - it's not some vast power-grab conspiracy by the government, it's extreme incompetence.

    I was completely insulted by the FBI director that said 'people that only make & sell stuff for a living'... ONLY? Those 'people that make and sell stuff' have more cash on hand than the US government. They operate in every nation of the world, and subject to every government in the world. If this tool exists, you bet your ass every 2-bit dictator, despot, and brutal regime is going to want their copy of it, and Apple will be just as compelled to give it to them, as anyone to the FBI.

    Maybe instead of "only" making & selling stuff.. why don't we point out that this dude "only" has never had a clue where the money comes from to pay his and every other public SERVANT's salary.

    Obama really wanted this to be 'workplace violence' when it happened... that supports his gun-grabbing and the narrative that we can welcome and hug every Muslim into the country, even the ones with self-declaration of support for ISIS on their Facebook page, and they will really just love us when they get here. A dude going to Pakistan for his mail-order bride and coming back with someone that totally jihadi'd him up and we slipped her a K-1 Visa doesn't really fit the narrative they want... so they are hoping against hope someone called him a camel jockey or a rag head on his text messages.

    The county also had mobile device software purchased & licensed, which would have made this a non-issue, they would have been able to read the data remotely, unlock it, or locate the phone, etc... that's the purpose of the stuff, the County never installed it... so who lost their job over that? yeah right... promotions were handed out.. just promote the incompetent to where they can't hurt anyone.
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    • Posted by $ 8 years, 2 months ago
      I also agree. I would think Apple could crack it and turn over the data. Had they not told SB to reset the password, this would all be moot. Supposedly, they have 17 other phones they want cracked, which may explain this as an excuse.
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  • Posted by ProfChuck 8 years, 2 months ago
    Apple has gone to great lengths to develop an encryption system that is essentially unbreakable, even with their own resources. If they do break it, even if they don't reveal how they did it, that reveals that the system can be broken and that fact alone makes the system worthless because if they can do it that then it is possible for anyone. Another thing, the Apple encryption system is based on the same principals as high level NSA code and military telecommunication systems. Showing that it can be broken jeopardizes any system that uses these or related technologies.
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  • Posted by term2 8 years, 2 months ago
    The govt is just using this approach as an attack against all encription protecting us against the government. Thats all it is, and it should be treated that way. Encription is the only way we can protect against a bad government, just as guns are needed to protect us against that bad government. Government is our enemy now, and we better accept that.
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    • Posted by scojohnson 8 years, 2 months ago
      It was funny how they 'insisted' this was a one-time thing, but the day after NYPD came out and said they had 189 iPhones they needed help with too, ranging from murder to petty theft.

      I stand by my belief that this is about using a subpoena to get a private company to do the government's work for them.
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      • Posted by term2 8 years, 2 months ago
        In the end they want the end of private encription. I think private encription is really something we need.

        The government used wiretapping to take down the mafia (and replace it with government mafia). Now they have realized that a lot of people are unhappy with our government (they call them terrorists nowadays) and they want to protect our government and its minions.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 2 months ago
    What kills me is that the FBI in changing the password violated the prime rule of evidence handling, which is DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING! They should have cloned the device and played with the clone - NOT the original.

    If I were a defense attorney, I could very easily challenge the admissibility of the phone now. Someone should get fired for such a bone-headed decision.
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    • Posted by scojohnson 8 years, 2 months ago
      The suspect is dead... this isn't a criminal investigation.
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      • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 2 months ago
        If they want to use it in a criminal investigation against anyone else, however, the rules still apply as to chain-of-evidence protection.

        In the legal arena, how you obtain your evidence is really important. There are only two ways admissible in court: via a warrant or via "plain sight"/"inevitable" finding - i.e. things in a public space. For all such evidence the defense has the right to challenge such evidence if there is belief that the evidence has been tampered with or if such evidence wasn't obtained via a valid warrant or "inevitable" disclosure procedure. In other words, a defense attorney can argue that since the phone was tampered with, any evidence AND any further discovery based on things found on the phone are now inadmissible as evidence AND any actions taken by law enforcement based on suspect evidence including further justification for search warrants, etc. is now ALL suspect and subject to challenge under the rules of evidence submission. And all challenges place the burden of proof on the prosecution.

        This really is a big deal.
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        • Posted by scojohnson 8 years, 2 months ago
          I would guess compelling a private company to do their work for them wouldn't do much for the chain of custody thing.
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          • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 2 months ago
            It certainly introduces a problem, yes, because then the defense attorney can force them to show how they've received their accreditation to work with law enforcement previously. Usually, they have to have a computer forensics certification and be registered as a private detective or an expert resource - but those don't really apply post-incident.

            So, yeah, what the government has basically done here is abandon any hopes for a criminal prosecution of anyone associated with data on that phone.

            And compelling a private company to do something borders on both 5th Amendment issues and "takings" clauses, among other legal issues. One can be compelled to turn over evidence or face Obstruction of Justice and/or Contempt charges, but this isn't exactly the same thing, as Apple has no readily-available backdoor into the data and is not the custodian.
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            • Posted by Steven-Wells 8 years, 2 months ago
              There's also the 13th Amendment, which includes:
              Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
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