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Now I know why NOT to vote for Trump

Posted by strugatsky 8 years, 3 months ago to Politics
154 comments | Share | Best of... | Flag

I was drawn to Trump for various reasons – his boldness, anti-political correctness, his recognition of real problems and not being afraid of talking about them in real terms. Much of what he said has been twisted by the media and made appear crude, insensitive, even illegal, but the media is very good at that… So, none of those issues bothered me at all, in fact, I was glad that he brought them up and I agree with many of them. But I also recognized that he is “loose cannon” and difficult to predict. He had the potential for much needed changes and for going off the constitutional path altogether. Yet, recognizing that essentially staying on the course of the past 30 or 40 years, were bound to fail, and fail big. However, the eye-opener was the debate in South Carolina, when the moderator pressed Trump to explain his often made claim that he plans to “make America great again” – as to, specifically, how? Trump answered that he would prevent US corporations from shipping jobs overseas by enacting (in proposed cooperation with Congress) a punitive tax (or tariff) on them of, say, extra 35%. So, instead of creating favorable conditions for the businesses (and individuals) by lowering taxes and eliminating frivolous regulations, Trumps proposed to be an American Hugo Chavez. One would think that he was reading Directive 10-289! And we all know how well this Directive has worked in Venezuela and how well it is working in Russia. So, this was my eye-opener. And a special thanks to Freedom for pointing at Gary Johnson – if Trump does indeed gets the nomination, I am definitely voting for Johnson.


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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    then he has little chance and i go to plan B but that does not include voting for any GD left wingers. If we can't have representation then it's time to tear it down and to hell with the body count. You think Cruz would turn it down ...he's a politician and that is one hell of a lot of votes...more than the other side can muster they are too busy knifing each other. I don't believe in unfortunately. I believe in winning. that word is for the weak.
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  • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Unfortunately, that is unlikely. Historically, the RINO's have picked a very religious VP to bolster the zealots' votes. If the candidate himself is religious, like Cruz, his beliefs won't let him pick a Libertarian.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Ah you haven't read all the posts. In the primary you select who to support and vote by registering with one party. For example for Cruz or for dumpa trump or register for the othere side and vote for the weakest candidate they have which would be Bernie unless hillary is arrested first.

    you still get to vote on all local issues

    In the general you re-register and leave the top to lines blank. No write ins they go to winner takes all after the fact

    Now consider if Cruz would like to win he might mine the biggest selection of voters out there. Demos are 29% Repos are 24% unregistered unrepresented disenfranchised are 46% and growing. Of that number you will lose the weak sister toilet flushers.. but

    If Cruz was smart he would run with Web as VP candidate and pick up enough of the lost souls to win.....And that puts one of ours four to eight years out since this one is no Biden.

    That also provides four years to form a coalition to counter the Government party Rinos and Dinos

    But weaklings and toilet flushers and fifth columnists and socialist roaders are not invited.

    That includes International and National Socialists.
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  • Posted by dekayz 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That's my point. All of the electoral votes are going to go to Hillary or Bernie no matter who I vote for. A republican vote is just as much toilet paper as a libertarian vote. Might as well use it to make a statement. Of course, that's only effective if we can get a significant number of people to do the same thing. Johnson could never win but, if he gets 5 or 10% it might start something.
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  • Posted by $ Stormi 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    A Libertarian running mate, why not, it goes along with much of the Republican voters' beliefs. Who could complain when Obama has an entire cabinet of Muslims. The Dems could not say much.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Are you a winner take all state. One where the winner is accorded ALL the votes cast? Including write ins?

    That's why not.

    Now if Cruz chose Johnson as VP running mate and that got the camel's nose in the game .. and that move prompted much of the 46% disenfranchises.... you follow me?

    I'd say if that were the case re registering in the primary to vote for the Democrat opposition to Hillary and busting her ass out early on then switching back for the general would make sense. One big mother feather political raid.

    But as it stands now ....winner takes all includes all third party all write ins etc.

    Your choice and depends on your state. If they are going to vote for Cruz or Bernie anyway....then put the support where it is needed.

    A good political raid can be spontaneous if it is carefully planned and executed. It's not for the weak sister voters.
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  • Posted by dekayz 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    OK, so why not, in the states that are going to vote democrat anyway, vote for Johnson. For example, Minnesota is never going to vote for anyone who does not have a (D) by their name. The last time we voted for a Republican was Nixon! If all of us here admit that Trump, or Cruz or whichever enema insertion point ends up on the ballot has zero chance of winning in this state votes for Johnson, maybe we can start to build some momentum. At some point we have to either get a 3rd party to be taken seriously or we are doomed to choose between the 2 candidates that the major parties inflict upon us.
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Good luck with that.

    A Persian buddy of mine was writing software for our local water company. He was really ticked one day because he lost the work to a guy from India who said he'd take the work for $15/hour. I immediately responded, "You should have said, 'I'LL DO IT FOR $7/HR!'" We still laugh about that (he agreed). Let's start some real bidding wars! Imagine what Uncle Sam will do when the engineering grad starts reporting on his W-2 that he's working for $8/hr. Twisted...but, you're chuckling...

    Talk about a deflationary recession...
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Haha! You are correct.

    Trump, apparently, is running a smart campaign. With this proposal he'll get closet support from the leftists. He'll get support from a majority of Republicans. He just might beat Hillbillary. Bernie won't be in the race, as somebody somewhere apparently has polaroids of the super-delegates in compromising positions...
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  • Posted by term2 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Taking advantage of government help (being part of the problem) will produce the best outcome until the ultimate crash comes when the money tree that feeds the government programs dries up and the entitled people rise up to collect whats "due them". I agree that the middle class is disappearing and the rich get richer
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  • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I don't expect a "walking dead" scenario, at least not for long. There are enough weapons in this country, mostly concentrated in the good guys' hands, that the zombie scenario will be short lived. More realistic is the Weimar version - the rich will get much richer, the poor will get much poorer and the middle class will disappear. In fact, this is already happening. Your best chances of survival are being a mini-Trump - take advantage of any government program and collect all you can to stay on top. What other choices are there?
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  • Posted by term2 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    If I could somehow protect what I have saved, get enough food and housing, somehow obtain medical care if I need it, and stay away from the hordes that will want to take it away from me, I would feel somewhat secure from the socialists. I am thinking that laying low as in ALONGSIDE NIGHT, and adopting some of the ideas of Harry Browne in his book on living free in an unfree world are the best shots.

    I have some gold and silver, but I am sure whatever the statists could find would be confiscated to prolong their administration. The issue would not be how to hide it, but how to spend it without winding up in jail. Storing food is a short term fix, but once the hordes found out I had some, defense from them and the government that they support would be difficult.

    I think the "walking dead" tv show has gotten so much popularity in that once you take out the zombie idea (stupid) and replace it with wandering hordes of entitled people when the government isnt there to support them, it really resonates with the common feelings of millions of people. They know something is wrong, but dont realize what it is.
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  • Posted by conscious1978 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I fear the same. However, I'm not quite ready to face the faithful Trump believers whipped into a righteous "our team won; we have the power" frenzy acting on one of his emotional outbursts.
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  • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    After 30 years of solid socialist march, culminating with Obama and his (purposefully) convoluted laws that are impossible to unwrap short of a total collapse or a civil war, I do not see this country as recoverable anymore, whoever continues to preside in the White Castle.
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  • Posted by conscious1978 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    On the contrary, I think a Trump presidency would guarantee as quick, or quicker, demise of the U.S. You seem to be ignoring his history, endorsing his behavior, and placing Faith in his rhetoric.
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  • Posted by term2 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    This is a mob-rule majority run democracy, unfortunately. All bets are off now. The constitution is just a document written hundreds of years ago.

    Its all about electability (pandering to 50.1%) to get elected. Trump, for as much as you dislike him, is capturing the anti establishment mood of the country, and is electable at this point. The other remaining GOP candidates are just establishment hacks, and on the democratic side just various versions of socialist hacks offering more or less of our money to buy votes.

    You better hope Trump gets to be next president and brings politically correctness back to a low level, and exposes government practices that we need exposed. If we get Hillary or Sanders, its over for the USA in short order
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  • Posted by term2 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I think that governments become self-promoters after a short time. They want more power, more money they dont have to actually earn, and more employees (minions). YES, government IS our enemy.

    People tell me why I feel ok with unlocking the doors at my business at night, but would LOVE to lock them during the day (we sell primarily through the internet and dealers, not walk ins). Thats because over the years we have been stolen from much more by government during the day than any thieves at night.

    I would love to be a fly on the wall when Bernie has a few drinks and loosens up. Same with Hillary. I remember a few instances when Obama and Bill C didnt realize they were being recorded. Very interesting.

    I suspect Trump is the same at any time. Very refreshing.
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  • Posted by term2 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I thought that right after it was passed and we found out how expensive it was going to be. I am really surprised that people let him get away with that. I feel like a sheep
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  • Posted by conscious1978 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "Trump's telling us like it is"????? (I have to bite my lip...'er fingers...where are the bandaids?)

    To which part, which version, which rumor, which innuendo and contradictory comment of his are you referring?! Listen to him; he speaks as if Opinion is Fact. He floats Rumor, loudly, ( "...some people say"; "I heard...") to establish personal deniability. He does these things while sounding like a poorly behaved 15 year old...and that is supposed to recommend him over others?!

    Not voting for Trump does not guarantee that a criminal Democrat or delusional Socialist will win. They are no more qualified than the "back door" dealing Trump to be President. You present him as a transparent, honest, 'biz-ness-mon' when obvious history contradicts this. I'll continue to say, your rationale to support Trump is weak. I don't want an emotionally immature, Pragmatist dictator stripping what is left of property rights via one of his deals.
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  • Posted by XenokRoy 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That I agree with. It was done the way it was to make the current system more expensive than single payer so that we could be saved by the government. Perhaps that is a bit conspiratorial in thinking, but I think it non the less.
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  • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The two last point that you're making - Trump's stand against PC and his pointing out the crony capitalism here - are the issues that I most like about him. He certainly started that dialog.

    One point that I want to focus on. " Free trade would be great on both sides for the people- perhaps not for the governments involved." Doesn't that mean that our government is the enemy of the people? Certainly not a government of the people for the people...

    As to Bernie's "innocence" - I have met quite a few delusional people, some of whom are very intelligent in other areas, that have this clinical condition, called socialism. I am not sure if is curable, as some very advanced cases have been known to go their execution proclaiming the virtues of their executioners. It is a very serious condition.
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  • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Very well laid out - thank you. As I noted earlier, he seems to be the best of the bunch that has a realistic chance of being elected (if elections are still based on votes). No one is perfect, but Cruz's default position seems to be the Constitution - and that's acceptable to me.
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