Yes, these "if then" arguments are an evasion of the essentials and not even logical -- for those who realize that logic requires concepts with meaning, not manipulation of floating abstractions as arbitrary "conditionals". If blacks were forced to register for plantation work would anyone even think to respond, "if they are, then whites, olives and yellows should, too." It's worse than a waste of words, it isn't true and it's an egalitarian evasion.

The egalitarian argument had very real horrible results under Nixon, which with your having been there you may remember the history of directly. Faced with massive protests against the war and the draft Nixon inherited from Kennedy and Johnson, along with "inequalities" under deferments as a secondary issue, instead of denouncing the war and the draft, then getting out of all of it as soon as he could, he implemented the sophistry that he would make the draft "fair" by instituting a "lottery". Which he did, cynically making a big show out of the televised drawing of birth dates from a big drum as if it were all a game show. As part of his pandering to sacrifice in the name of egalitarianism he had already disrupted more lives eliminating some deferments, including all graduate students.

Nixon had the gall to cover over a massive injustice with the sophistry that no one was responsible for forcibly conscripting people if only they made it "fair" by replacing conscious choice with egalitarian "chance" in ignorance -- as if that made no one responsible for what the government was doing. A blank out deliberately making draft officials unaware of what they were doing to whom was regarded as morally superior. That cynical evasion served to buy Nixon time, which is what he was after, leading to countless more enslavements and deaths. If that cynical amoralism and pragmatic manipulation pandering to replacing justice with "equality" doesn't sum up Nixon and his administration then nothing can.

Whatever the numbers turned out to be, you are right that it was regarded as a way to avoid the worst, even if there was still a risk. Same for the Coast Guard. It is disgusting that anyone had to "join" anything to avoid the draft -- it was still coercion. And the same for anything other than the military, including taking a "defense job" in a private industry one did not want just to get a deferment.

I wouldn't blame Bush at all if he did the same thing, I would blame him if he wouldn't acknowledge it, and do blame him for not morally denouncing the draft when he was accused of avoiding it, providing an at least implicit sanction.

I am relieved and glad to hear it!

Glad the Marines needed supply clerks.
Never got out of the Carolinas.
I handled the requisitioning of parts for a satellite communications squadron at a Marine air base called Cherry Point, NC.
Halfway through that, I was trained to be a deuce-and-a half ton truck driver so I could also help move those parts and other stuff like office furniture and carpets.
Better than getting shot at or booby trapped by an enemy who successfully used the strategy and tactics of Sun Tzu's The Art Of War, according to The History Channel.

During the Vietnam War, most of my male friends and family members were slaves for a period of time...and not one came home unscathed, not one.

Some had visible wounds, others carried them within but no one came home without a scar.

I only had one friend go the Canadian route and one cousin had some strings pulled and miraculously (as well as suspiciously) went from a I-A to a IV-F.

All of my friends and family who answered the call to service looked upon it as their duty to go and would have done so without the draft.

Like you, Allosaur, I don't believe anyone should be forced to serve in a free society.

Very Heinleinian. I think that something along those lines might work.

Jan

Heard there's a nice military career retirement package.
There have been times when I thought I should have stayed in the Marines.
I was told I would have been a sergeant but the barracks morale was terrible in 1971.
I have a state retirement now as a former corrections officer.

What percentage of those enlisting in Guard units during the Viet Nam War saw active duty in a combat zone versus the percentage of drafted men who saw such duty? My guess is the answer to that question will reveal why many thought that getting into the Guard was preferable to being drafted. Do you know the figures?

End the draft, but make the right to vote or hold government office conditional on having served in military, law enforcement, or the medical profession.

Emotion? Not in the slightest. I am merely challenging you to stand by your convictions.

If you think joining the Air National Guard, especially in a time of war, is a cushy gig filled with pansies and draft dodging cowards, nothing will happen if you say so to their faces. So my challenge still stands. Either accept it, or admit that you are wrong about George Bush being a draft dodger.

http://www.mnroa.org/0703/Research/vn...

Air National Guardsmen not only were called into direct federal service, but had whole units activated and sent into combat, including units from Colorado, Iowa, New Mexico, and New York. That's not counting the ancillary support flights, or the Ohio and Kansas air national guard units that were called up to replace units sent to Vietnam from South Korea.

That's also not counting the Army National Guard (State Guard) from 8 different states that were deployed IN Vietnam for support, artillery, and direct combat roles.

My point is, anyone suggesting that joining the National Guard or Reserve so that they can "Dodge the draft" is either flat out wrong, or know that they are wrong and lying about it to denigrate someone.

*Addendum: This post is not for support or criticism of Bush as a man, but the fact that people call a Mach 1.2 recon pilot a draft dodging coward are perpetrating lies. He may be many things, but a coward is not one of them.

No, I enlisted in the Naval Reserve under the "Advanced Pay Grade" program, due to my civilian profession. I was given the rank of E-5 (same as I had when I left the USMC) and sent to New Orleans for two weeks for VERY basic instruction on being a sailor.

I've always said that being a "weekend warrior" was far better than doing it 24/7. Unfortunately, a bad back forced me to choose between my civilian occupation or trying to stick it out in the military. Otherwise...I would gladly have put 20 or more years in.

I can see that you are responding emotionally. This is not 1967. Back then, I knew two WWII veterans who urged their sons to goto Canada because Viet Nam was not the same kind of war they served in.

Similarly, while the present political and military involvement in the Middle East is also an intellectual and moral quagmire, the national ethic has changed. The general view since 9/11 is more aligned with World War II than Viet Nam.

And just for the record, I am a PO3 in the Maritime Regiment of the Texas State Guard.
==> http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/20...
==> http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/20...
==> http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/20...

... and see others on the same subject ("Texas State Guard") on my blog.

I recall getting a kick out the USA kicking butt during Desert Storm.
I was also too old then and do not recall wishing I was young enough to enlist..
Desert Storm did not affect me as deeply as 9/11.
Curious. Did you have to go back to boot camp?

Funny...it was Desert Storm that got me to enlist for the second time (12 years after I got out of the Corps).

Who knows...we may, yet, still get called upon to fight...just not by our government.

You have it all wrong. The Big Government Party has always loved the draft to fight the wars of the Political Class and the draft has always been us males. Now, in the name of equality, transparancy, and all good things leftwing, we should keep the registration --- but not for men. It should be only for women until they equal the number of years it is been imposed on men. That's equality, right?

Thanks back at ya.
I don't mind telling people I was in the Marines and making corporal under meritorious conditions always looked good on a resume.
Still have the paperwork to prove it.
I was no shirker. I did my job but lived for getting out.
I thought the Vietnam War was a sad waste and I'm glad I was not sent over there to risk dying for nothing.
Had I been the right age when the World Trade Center was destroyed I may well have joined to fight.
I was furious. And finally motivated when too old.

Thank you for your service...

I volunteered for the 7 years I did and don't regret a moment of it (okay...maybe, boot camp). Brainwashed, or not, I believe military service to be of a great benefit to many young people in our country and did everything I could to get our two boys to enlist (one did, the other refused).

The military taught me to be, both an independent person and a team member. The things I learned helped me to become the productive person I am, today.

I'm not saying it's for everyone, nor that it should be a requirement, but I feel that I have a little more ownership in my right to call myself an American, because of my service.

My point on rules is that if the draft were reinstituted, and I can't see that happening, Congress would have to pass legislation declaring who could be drafted, what the exemptions were, who was going to manage it, etc. Once this happened they would have to re-register everyone to see if they were elegible. This means the existing registry would be virtually useless.

I was two years a slave.
I spent a longer time dreading the possibility.
Being set free was one of the happiest days of my life.
No one should be forced to serve for anything in a supposedly free society.

During the Viet Nam War, National Guard service was very widely viewed as a means to avoid the draft simply because it was. I remember talking with such people at that time about how they managed it and nobody punched me at all. In fact, they were just a little bit proud at having pulled it off. Maybe times and attitudes have changed.

Particularly if they were one of those just back from a 3rd or 10th deployment.

I dare you, I double dog dare you, to go up to someone serving in the Air National Guard and accuse them of being a draft dodger. Then we'll see how many teeth you have left when you come back here and report how it went.

Everyone (including the government) seems to be forgetting that they are already part of the "Unorganized Militia" that should be ready to be called up with their rifle, and their ammo, and any other necessary supplies, should the need arise.