Disgusting. But, I'm not surprised by anything disgusting (or just plain idiotic) that people do. God said it would happen, I mean, it's not a surprise. People have been doing stupid stuff that makes no sense for thousands of years.
Heck, they used to light a fire in the belly of a metal statue of Baal, heat it up till it was red hot, and then place babies in the hands of the statue and sat there listening to the screaming of their babies being burned to death in the hands of the statue.
This is called "evil" people. Haven't you ever wondered why all the following groups WILLINGLY cooperate togetther, even though their views are diametrically opposed: - Hippies - Feminists - Socialists - Communists - Abortionists - Nazis - Homosexual activists - Liberal "Christians" - Environmentalists - Fundamentalist Muslims etc...
Every single one of those groups, they ALL are united in their utter hatred of the God of the Bible. Not their utter hatred of "god", but the God of the Bible.
Do you find it strange that they cooperate together and get along? That they all exhibit the same actions (lying, cheating, twisting words, stealing, etc, so long as it gets their viewpoint advanced). I'm not surprised, God said it would happen. He said his enemy (Satan) would do these things. He's doing it all over the place, in varying degrees with some people, and in tremendous degrees with others. But there is no "kinda" on his side, even though the actions taken are "small" or "great".
Oh, gee, congratulations, Ayn Rand was an athiest. She brilliantly rejected everything the Communists taught her, then swung around and embraced their athiesm. That's "SMRT"
It is not the place for this argument? Why? You don't have any interest in understanding WHY people do these things? Fine, live in your psychotic fantasy world. I just gave you the answer, but, as I expected, you didn't want to hear it, nor could you understand it.
Not the place for a religious argument. Thought this was the Gulch, not a Christian supremest group.
However, your allusion to the stature of Baal is overcome by far more recent Christian atrocities such as burning witches and torturing heretics. In Samuel 15:3 God commands the killing of all Amalekites, including children and infants. History is teaming with examples of Christian (and other religious) leaders "... (lying, cheating, twisting words, stealing, etc, so long as it gets their viewpoint advanced)". These acts do not define all Christians. Neither do the acts of some extreme Muslims define that religion.
You apparently have a belief. Many, myself included do not have that belief. In fact, I'd like to think I have no "beliefs", but I'm probably not that good. I trust in logical argument (and sarcasm), which cannot affect a belief. So I can't sway you. Yet another reason not to pursue in this argument.
If you want the last word please take it, and let's end this argument about how your invisible friend is so good, I should give up the freedoms you choose to interpret from your belief book (buying beer on Sunday, condoms, premarital sex...), and you can continue on your paranoid delusion regarding these largely misguided, but clearly not collaborating groups.
Well, to be accurate here, Christianity relies on the New Testament as the basis of theology. While the Old Testament is certainly part of the history, Jesus taught differently. It really bugs me when those who want to attack Christianity only pull their examples from the Old Testament. CHRISTianity is based on the teachings of Christ, who was a Jew and came from the historical context of the Old Testament, but taught that not all of the history was understood correctly. If you want to have a theological discussion, please use the correct understanding of theology.
You are right of course, and mine is the kind of license one takes when arguing while irritated.
However, you have to admit that Christians similarly take license in whether to use the Old Testament as well. For example, the biblical position against homosexuality and abortion leverage the Old Testament, not the New Testament.
I do apologize to any offended in pointing out the human failings demonstrated in religious history.
Religious freedom is clearly protected; therefore, should not serve as the basis for justifying a reasonable position.
SOME Christians do so, not those that are honest in their theology. Christ loved the sinner, I see no reason that I shouldn't do the same. Besides, I have no right to dictate to others how they live their life. So long as they do not affect me, that is all that I have to expect from them.
Barwick11, She did not 'swing around' as she never believed in what she termed 'mysticism.' She supported logic and reason, the Communists just didn't want any competition such as religion could give them.
I hate to say this... but the groups you mentioned generally despise one another (put a few hippies, communists, neo-nazis, gay people, and Fundie Muslims in a room, with various weaponry, and tell me the body count afterwards). What this is is a list of Fundamental Christian Biases. plain and simple, used to proselytize...
And no, I don't find it strange... that you're doing exactly what you've accused others of doing. Fits the stereotype of a group who claim the title of "Christian" yet cannot fathom the one simple rule Christ set forth - Love One Another. Gak.
Of course they "generally despise one another", but they gladly ally together for the same cause.
And are you *seriously* coming here saying I'm one who "cannot fathom the one simple rule..."? Really? It's convenient of you to use your twisted interpretation of the Bible to further your point.
In fact, it does say love one another. And it also says to rebuke evil. If someone has done evil, recognizes it, and turns from it, we are to forgive. If someone comes out and "calls evil good", then we are to rebuke them.
You are showing yourself to be taking a indefensible, self-contradictory, and as such , anti-sane side in a non-existent argument by stating partial truth and twisted logic.
Rational people do not argue with the insane. Good bye.
Oh, explain how I am taking an indefensible, self-contradictory, and supposedly anti-sane argument.
Burden of proof is on you when you make such absurd claims. I explained to you what the Bible says, and you say I'm taking an indefensible, etc, etc, etc argument.
Re: barwick 11, Barwick, please remember that as Christians we should only engage in this sort of talk trying to convince non believers if they invite you to do so. However your attempt at trying to explain the actions of people who would place razor blades on playgrounds as an obvious manifestation of evil. There is evil among Christians as there is evil among Atheist. The flaw in people of either beliefs is when they refuse to recognize that evil exists in the world. That refusal seems to be prevalent among liberal progressives.
Sadly, Thoritsu seems to one of those Atheists that is not capable of engaging in these types of discussions in a civilized manner. It's sad when either side is guilty of claiming to be right by disparaging the other side. I ask you to respect each others opinions and trying to find common ground.
You're being delusional. While some of those groups do overlap (such as Feminists and Abortionists), to suggest that they're all working together is utter nonsense. Also, a vast majority of LGBT activists absolutely hate Neo-Nazis (I assume you mean Neo-Nazis, because the original Nazis no longer exist). Honestly, where do you get your information from? Cleon Skousen?
Also, let's not forget all the genocidal campaigns that various Christian churches have engaged in throughout history. There's the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Holocaust, just to name a few.
Sad when people use their faith to somehow support and promote their own ego-driven desires... using the "pick-and-choose" method of scriptural Interpretation. And then arguing with others over it, as if that method is the only right one. Like I said - it's anti-sane. --shrug--
Actually, many of us do come here for intellectual debate. While I don't agree with the tone of the question (and I have used such in the past, so I'm not going to throw stones), it would still seem to be a valid one. You can pick up your ball and go home, or you can choose to support your assertion with facts and rational discourse, it's up to you.
You forgot #3 - for I choose to say to your "offer" a resounding "No thank you". You can have *your* ball back; I'm going back to producing. Good luck, and have a nice weekend.
Re: Maphesdus, You are correct in pointing out the hypocrisy among some Christians throughout history. Most of us Christians are ashamed of those that committed those sins against Christianity. However, lets not pretend that other non-Christians committed many sins of similar nature and continue to do so today. I am not claiming that one excuses the other, only that history can be very misleading not only by the lies told, but by the truth omitted. History is full of people and events that are indeed horrible, but please remember that all sides did what they did not because they did or did not believe in god, but because they would do anything to gain power and wealth and would use any way of persuasion they could find.
Correct, Fred. Christianity does not advocate aggression against non-believers. That does not mean that men haven't used aggression, merely that they did so for their own reasons, not as a consequence of the theology of Christianity.
The Holocaust? Seriously? Are you that delusional that you believe the holocaust was perpetrated by Christians?
The Crusades were an act of defense against an invading... guess who... MUSLIM nation that slaughtered the Christians who previously lived in that area.
The Spanish Inquisition, the... which church? The *Catholic* Church, that's which one. The one that Martin Luther sought to reform because of all the vile corruption within it? The same one that has that same vile corruption within it to this day?
At least the protestant church admits its mistakes and condemns them.
Barwick11 has got some points when it comes to cooperation between, say, socialists/communists, environmentalists and fundamentalist Muslims. That would be an interesting issue in itself.
This is a case where the perpetrator should face an eye for an eye type of justice. He/she should be made to run the gauntlet! Prison is too god for them.
So be it! I would be happy to mete out "justice". Over the years I have heard of horror stories of people putting razor blades in apples and handing them out on Halloween. I have no sympathy for such animals.
Maybe johnrobert is just nice and friendly. Such people do exist, khalling. As for spelling etc. I am grateful for those who will take the time to correct me; that's one way of learning. Peace.
He may simply be a gentleman of an earlier generation. Not everyone is trying to insult everyone all the time. A little benefit of the doubt might be in order at a time when many people think that, (pardon the expression) bitch is an acceptable word to use in polite company.
Why? Especially for mm. We all know that he's got some vision issues. If you can understand what was written, leave it alone. If you can't then ask for clarification. Pointing out other's spelling issues just makes you look petty or one who needs to feel superior at the expense of others.
Well, to be honest, one has to choose to be offended. That said, actions that people take can be offensive even if the targeted individual isn't offended. In this case, it's merely rude.
No. JR has had this pointed out other times. Most of us who have been here for any length of time (and most certainly JR) have heard that mm has vision problems and sometimes doesn't catch any misspellings. To continue to point that out is just rude - regardless of who it is. I think of those on this board as if you were a guest in my own home. I wouldn't think to correct you on something like spelling or grammar. If I didn't understand something that you said because of it, I would ask for clarification, but would never make you feel badly about it. As I said, to do so is just arrogance - or a deliberate attempt to make oneself feel superior by pointing out a deficiency in another. That is even worse than just poor manners.
Robbie, The truth is that you would NOT make me feel badly; I am not that thin-skinned. Nor do I agree that it is a deliberate attempt to make oneself feel superior...etc. Nor do I see arrogance. Too much psycho-analysis here where none is needed.
Actually, there was once a movie about a sick individual who tortured those he held captive in a house of horrors. One of the tortures was a double wall about 13 in apart, lined with razor blades, through which the victims must go. End of story, the victims reversed the situation with this little incentive. He must make a choice between being killed by a pack of attack dogs or RUN between the walls. Pretty picture, eh?
In the last days as quoted in the Bible. It will get worse. Choosing children has been an old adage. They pick on the weak no matter how much harm. To me this is nothing more than cowardice. They cannot play with anyone that has an IQ. that surpasses their evil intent. Cutting yourself with anything does not feel good anyway, but with razor blades. The only thing that their intelligence tells me is they understand the excitement of children looking at that playground. Those who choose to go down this road will eventually fall victim to their own deeds. Vile is the perfect word. Some may not agree and that's okay with what prophecy foretold, but Patrick Henry before D.C. became to be what it is today spoke of the things during the Continental Congresses meetings to revise the Article's of Confederation to become as we know today as The Constitution. I believe Patrick Henry was more than a great orator. I believe he was one of our last Prophets. Some believe some do not. His "give me liberty or give me death speech" was never written down, but was brought down by those who heard it. James Madison had problems with Henry because he knew in his being Henry was right. Taken from "The Road to Independence" at Amazon and a few other DVD's. by Mike Church.
You've got a couple of things in there that seem to be divergent. Are you trying to say that PH was a prophet that foretold the evil of this harm to children? I'm not sure that I can extrapolate "Give me liberty or give me death" to these actions. To me, these are vile, evil people, perhaps even mentally deranged. I'm not sure that they have any conscious intent to affect anyone's liberty other than to hurt other people. While in a strict sense, that is the ultimate attack on liberty, I doubt seriously that the perpetrators of this act had that in mind. IMHO. Thanks for elaborating. Good to have another perspective.
He seen as Ayn Rand seen what America has become. He wanted no part until the Bill of Rights were included. And then he had his reservations. D.C. as it is really could care less about our children as this you have appropriately named. The same as this deranged person that would do this to a child or anyone has that mentality. Sometimes I try to understand and write things down that make since and trip over my tongue. All in all D.C. and this person are leading a life that endangers you or I and all that read topics as these. I hope that helps. As far as Rand and Henry being Prophets. They knew something that is and will go on until it's demise.
Vile is the word. However, as many of you would like to see similar torture done to the perpetrators, I do wonder if it would help with prison for some years and hard labor, productive labor, and 'if you don't work, you don't eat.' and no way around that.The boys father could volunteer to see that they DO work. The ones thinking up such cruel idiocy can't possibly be part of a normal society. Let them learn the hard way or starve, it's up to them.
Anyone who would do this where it would intentionally harm children, as this was clearly meant to do, has no morality at all. They are less than animals, and deserve less respect than an animal. I would put a hurt animal out of it's misery - these vile creatures deserve to have misery laid upon them.
Animals do not do this kind of thing, Robbie. These vile people are less than HUMAN, perverted and un- fit for any society. Also, if you came close to my gentle dogs who love people, I would keep an eye on you.
The left-handed version of human endeavor: Too much time on their hands, no role models. no education worth a damn, and now a country where, according to O's pal Van Jones, everything is 'upside-down, inside-out'.
The people that did this need to be tied to a tree or something and beat with a bullwhip or better yet, as cat of nine tails!!! Then put pool of alcohol and THEN..put in jail for several years!
I'm getting cold chills thinking of all the times I took my children and grandchildren to parks or school play grounds. This would have never occurred to me. Sickening!
Our children have been taught for years in public schools that there is no right and wrong. Their loyalties are with peers (until they are transferred to the state). Some schools even teach kids they will return, so death means little. Columbine jumped on board with such curriculum years ago. God,of course, if banned from our schools completely. Kids spout caring for the people of Africa, but not for their fellow classmates or neighbors. Then, the sewer that has become prime time TV, just reinforces it all. Lord of the Flies lives.
I know a number of current-day school teachers, and none of them teach the way, or the things, you describe.
I have to assume that groups that teach we live on after our material, earthly "death" are also responsible for devaluing death. That would be all major religions (and, to be honest, this IS a problem I have with all major religions. What I'm not so sure of--not that it effects my beliefs--is what people on this site think of that aspect of religion)
I think there is a big difference between religiosity and spirituality. Religion is a man made phenomenon to explain the unexplainable. Spirituality is personal.
Both typically deal with some soft of "life after death," thereby reducing the value of one's life here on earth.
Now, people are obviously free to believe what they want, but if we are going to criticize teachers for teaching "we will 'return'," (not that I think they do--I think this is a Straw Man argument), and ignore the FACT that religious and spiritual institutions drill this belief relentlessly into their charges, we're picking the wrong battle.
The sickness of people really knows no bounds. Who comes up with this?!? When they catch the f-nuts who did this, I hope they leave them alone with the father of that little boy...
Wouldn't make it to the end to feel the iodine. Now, if the razor blades extended into a track just enough to slit the skin, and had odd placings, then the result might be satisfactorily vocal enough.
Heck, they used to light a fire in the belly of a metal statue of Baal, heat it up till it was red hot, and then place babies in the hands of the statue and sat there listening to the screaming of their babies being burned to death in the hands of the statue.
This is called "evil" people. Haven't you ever wondered why all the following groups WILLINGLY cooperate togetther, even though their views are diametrically opposed:
- Hippies
- Feminists
- Socialists
- Communists
- Abortionists
- Nazis
- Homosexual activists
- Liberal "Christians"
- Environmentalists
- Fundamentalist Muslims
etc...
Every single one of those groups, they ALL are united in their utter hatred of the God of the Bible. Not their utter hatred of "god", but the God of the Bible.
Do you find it strange that they cooperate together and get along? That they all exhibit the same actions (lying, cheating, twisting words, stealing, etc, so long as it gets their viewpoint advanced). I'm not surprised, God said it would happen. He said his enemy (Satan) would do these things. He's doing it all over the place, in varying degrees with some people, and in tremendous degrees with others. But there is no "kinda" on his side, even though the actions taken are "small" or "great".
This is not church and Ayn Rand was an atheist.
However, your allusion to the stature of Baal is overcome by far more recent Christian atrocities such as burning witches and torturing heretics. In Samuel 15:3 God commands the killing of all Amalekites, including children and infants. History is teaming with examples of Christian (and other religious) leaders "... (lying, cheating, twisting words, stealing, etc, so long as it gets their viewpoint advanced)". These acts do not define all Christians. Neither do the acts of some extreme Muslims define that religion.
You apparently have a belief. Many, myself included do not have that belief. In fact, I'd like to think I have no "beliefs", but I'm probably not that good. I trust in logical argument (and sarcasm), which cannot affect a belief. So I can't sway you. Yet another reason not to pursue in this argument.
If you want the last word please take it, and let's end this argument about how your invisible friend is so good, I should give up the freedoms you choose to interpret from your belief book (buying beer on Sunday, condoms, premarital sex...), and you can continue on your paranoid delusion regarding these largely misguided, but clearly not collaborating groups.
However, you have to admit that Christians similarly take license in whether to use the Old Testament as well. For example, the biblical position against homosexuality and abortion leverage the Old Testament, not the New Testament.
I do apologize to any offended in pointing out the human failings demonstrated in religious history.
Religious freedom is clearly protected; therefore, should not serve as the basis for justifying a reasonable position.
She supported logic and reason, the Communists just didn't want any competition
such as religion could give them.
And no, I don't find it strange... that you're doing exactly what you've accused others of doing. Fits the stereotype of a group who claim the title of "Christian" yet cannot fathom the one simple rule Christ set forth - Love One Another. Gak.
Done here.
And are you *seriously* coming here saying I'm one who "cannot fathom the one simple rule..."? Really? It's convenient of you to use your twisted interpretation of the Bible to further your point.
In fact, it does say love one another. And it also says to rebuke evil. If someone has done evil, recognizes it, and turns from it, we are to forgive. If someone comes out and "calls evil good", then we are to rebuke them.
Rational people do not argue with the insane. Good bye.
Burden of proof is on you when you make such absurd claims. I explained to you what the Bible says, and you say I'm taking an indefensible, etc, etc, etc argument.
Barwick, please remember that as Christians we should only engage in this sort of talk trying to convince non believers if they invite you to do so. However your attempt at trying to explain the actions of people who would place razor blades on playgrounds as an obvious manifestation of evil. There is evil among Christians as there is evil among Atheist. The flaw in people of either beliefs is when they refuse to recognize that evil exists in the world. That refusal seems to be prevalent among liberal progressives.
Sadly, Thoritsu seems to one of those Atheists that is not capable of engaging in these types of discussions in a civilized manner. It's sad when either side is guilty of claiming to be right by disparaging the other side. I ask you to respect each others opinions and trying to find common ground.
Fred Speckmann
commonsensefor americans@yahoo.com
Also, let's not forget all the genocidal campaigns that various Christian churches have engaged in throughout history. There's the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Holocaust, just to name a few.
Go ahead, I'll wait. Probably till I die of old age, because I'm sure you won't find an answer.
You are correct in pointing out the hypocrisy among some Christians throughout history. Most of us Christians are ashamed of those that committed those sins against Christianity. However, lets not pretend that other non-Christians committed many sins of similar nature and continue to do so today. I am not claiming that one excuses the other, only that history can be very misleading not only by the lies told, but by the truth omitted. History is full of people and events that are indeed horrible, but please remember that all sides did what they did not because they did or did not believe in god, but because they would do anything to gain power and wealth and would use any way of persuasion they could find.
Fred Speckmann
commonsensforamericans@yahoo.com
The Crusades were an act of defense against an invading... guess who... MUSLIM nation that slaughtered the Christians who previously lived in that area.
The Spanish Inquisition, the... which church? The *Catholic* Church, that's which one. The one that Martin Luther sought to reform because of all the vile corruption within it? The same one that has that same vile corruption within it to this day?
At least the protestant church admits its mistakes and condemns them.
to cooperation between, say, socialists/communists, environmentalists and
fundamentalist Muslims. That would be an interesting issue in itself.
Playground.
Anyone who would do such a thing is evil, psychotic, or both!
people do exist, khalling.
As for spelling etc. I am grateful for those who
will take the time to correct me; that's one way
of learning. Peace.
Fred Speckmann
commonsenseforamericans@yahoo.com
Just my 2 cents.
Fred Speckmann
commonsenseforamericans@yahoo.com
and want them to be perfect ?
feel badly; I am not that thin-skinned. Nor do I agree
that it is a deliberate attempt to make oneself feel
superior...etc. Nor do I see arrogance. Too much
psycho-analysis here where none is needed.
be followed. Anything ...'Arabic' rubs me the
wrong way having been to Saudi Arabia.
Thanks for elaborating. Good to have another perspective.
like to see similar torture done to the perpetrators,
I do wonder if it would help with prison for some
years and hard labor, productive labor, and 'if you
don't work, you don't eat.' and no way around
that.The boys father could volunteer to see
that they DO work.
The ones thinking up such cruel idiocy can't possibly be part of a normal society. Let them learn the hard way or starve, it's up to them.
fit for any society. Also, if you came close to my
gentle dogs who love people, I would keep an
eye on you.
much time on their hands, no role models. no
education worth a damn, and now a country
where, according to O's pal Van Jones, everything is 'upside-down, inside-out'.
I have to assume that groups that teach we live on after our material, earthly "death" are also responsible for devaluing death. That would be all major religions (and, to be honest, this IS a problem I have with all major religions. What I'm not so sure of--not that it effects my beliefs--is what people on this site think of that aspect of religion)
Now, people are obviously free to believe what they want, but if we are going to criticize teachers for teaching "we will 'return'," (not that I think they do--I think this is a Straw Man argument), and ignore the FACT that religious and spiritual institutions drill this belief relentlessly into their charges, we're picking the wrong battle.