Historical examples of "brain drain" go back to ancient times. People pursue opportunity and smart people all the moreso. In the early 1960s, Ayn Rand pointed to the "brain drain" as a consequence of British socialism. The phenomenon was known by that name at that time. The citation usually goes to a Royal Society publication. You can read the RS Notes on it here:
http://rsnr.royalsocietypublishing.org/c...

That is probably why lostsierra called this "old news." In fact, the Wikipedia article about Brain Drain cites the Huguenot exodus from France in the 17th century. Among the places they went was Charleston in what is now South Carolina. The US Mint struck a Huguenot commemorative Half Dollar in 1924.

China continues to clamp down on the Internet and Chinese engineers continue to flee to the US on student visas. It is cause and effect. India is the world's largest democracy, and (not surprisingly) makes business difficult. So, they come to the USA.

The question is, "Where do we go?" Back in 1999 John Stossel pointed to Hong Kong where you could go into business with far less hassle than in the USA. It did not motivate me to pack up and leave. Mitt Romney was born in Mexico and those semi-secret enclaves of Americans seem attractive to some libertarians, but not to me.

True that, but I went for an attention-attracting word...

At the last company that paid me a salary, we had several divisions in France. One in particular got the reputation for what appeared to us 'Murkins as a policy or schedule like this...

0900 Arrive at work place
0900 Begin morning coffee break
1000 Wander over to desk and check voicemail
1130 Lunch break (beer and wine served in the company café.
1330 Return to desk. Check voicemail
1430 Afternoon coffee break
1500 Leave desk and go home.

We considered them one of the least 'productive' divisions in the Corporation, and WE were in California! (although in Silicon Valley, some of us still had good work ethics.)

c'est la meme chose? Absulement!

After a couple of days mulling this over, I have some problems. First "non-moocher" is an anti-concept. The word you want is "producer." And millions of producers remain in France, which is not identical with Paris, where millions of producers also live. In addition, not in the original but in a comment to it was a complaint that French workers only put in three hours of labor per day. In fact, when I worked at Kawasaki, that number was also cited by our HR director: it is common for all salaried employees in the industrialized nations. Yes, some people are far more productive - and they charge more, too, and tend to work for themselves. (At a meeting of a local Ruby on Rails group, a presenter told of his many ways to boost his productivity, from keyboard macros to shutting off email.) France has its problems to be sure, but if you know the history of France, you will not be shocked, or surprised or even concerned. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

From a friend/relative's email...

"Something to ponder....

These two short profound sentences tell you a lot about our government and our culture:

1. We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we ARE encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works.

2. Seems we constantly hear about how Social Security is going to run out of money. How come we never hear about welfare running out of money? What's interesting is the first group "worked for" their money, but the second didn't. "

Mr. Marotta, thanks for bringing up the Huguenots, one of them was an anchestor of mine. Few have probably heard of Nicolas Martieau who settled in Virginia in 1620, but his
great-great-great grandson they do know: our
first President, Washington.

Otto Zoff wrote a book on the history and struggles of the Huguenots (1942) and I do like
the last line in the book:

"The struggle of mankind continues uninterrupted; it began with the Creation and has never been waged in vain. He who gives himself to this struggle knows that the courage of man is his best hope, perhaps his only one."

Do you, by any chance, know of Frederic Bastiat ?
The former Mayor of Saint-Loubouer, M. Jacques
de Guenin, was the founder of Cercle de Frederic
Bastiac, and also an admirer of Ayn Rand, and
having had no contact with him for some years,
I do wonder if the Cercle is known or still in
operation. It was a good idea, but perhaps one
that's not well known ?

Oh yeah. And when it goes real good, they turn on each other. We had them refusing to sit with their own kind, and one had a nervous breakdown. Amazing when treachery comes home to roost. If we are to reclaim our country in the name of reason, we have to master psychological warfare. If more people had read "Rules for Radicals", Obama would not be the puppet king, turning the USA into a collectivists' utopia, like so much of Europe..

You're absolutely right. You stand together in principle but are scattered throughout the meeting area. If you do it right, they'll shut the meeting down when they lose control.

Beware, they do not let you stay together if you go together. They do pre-investigation to see who disagrees. Then they separate you, as in: put you in small groups with handlers who support the desired outcome. You are then told you are the only one who thinks as you do. Of course our people had studied the technique and how to handle it, as in stay calm, but unflinching. I do not mind saying just because someone disagrees with me, does not mean they are right, so lets move forward. However, we lost one of our people, who said she could not believe people she knew could be so mean, and she finished the meetings in silence. They know exactly what the result is meant to be, and you can only hang in there and stay firm in opposition. In the case of Agenda 21, our property rights and entire way of life is at stake.

The same thing they use at Agenda 21 and sustainable development meetings. If you are alone they will ridicule you. The way to defeat this technique is to have multiple people who support each other and stand together. Rosa Koire is an expert on this. Listen to her on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV5J2Axv...

One has only to look at the young voters today, to see what these school programs have produced - entitlement babies with limited reasoning power.
Back about the same time, I was writing letters to the editor to fight the past incarnation in our schools, leading them to put me on the "Strategic Plan Team", to try to shut me up. Luckily, we had studied the Delphi Technique they used on us, and stuck to our beliefs. Now a whole new generation of parents are being blindsided by these programs, obviously on an international level.

Rand fashioned a fantasy to prove a point. Since I am relatively new to the Gulch, I am not privy to your former posts. This is a much different world than it was in the 50's, and with all due respect, your approach without the participation of those who think the same as you is useless. Unless you have invented the wondrous motor and personally visited the outstanding men of the mind, you cannot be John Galt. I am the same as you, not by choice, but by physical impairment. The difference between the elephants and asses is starting to emerge in the Libertarian movement. Not fully Rand but closer to the aims of the Founders than in recent memory. It is your voice and the voices of those like you that can change the downward slide leading to a fascist oblivion.

As a basis, no. Correct. But perhaps as a common de-evolution? Notice the increasing frequency of the appearance of the term 'crony capitalism' in the MSM today... as on the cover of The Economist.

Just MAYBE we can pull back from the abyss.

If you cannot see the path this is leading us down then I recommend you open your mind and think beyond what you see. How do you suppose those whom are creating the conflict plan to end it? World war will not, so what will? You must look deeper into those behind the scene. Do you not see what is really going on?

Perhaps every culture and society has had a basis of looting modified by mooching. America may have been the the first one that was not.

I AM fighting. By being John Galt.
If you search for some of my older posts, I've explained my approach and viewpoint (so as not to repeat it here).
The other alternative would be to resort to politics. Unfortunately there is really not much difference between the elephants and the asses, err, I mean donkeys. Crony capitalism and big government on one side or socialism and big government on the other. Which is why last year I changed affiliation from the elephants to the libertarians (do they have an animal ?). Not that they've got it right either, but they're more closely in sync with Objectivism than anyone else.
But, bottom line, I will not contribute to a society that values those contributions only in their taking.

Looks like another collapse of the French Republic is imminent. I think they're too far gone to recover. The question is what happens to the EU if France folds. The German people are already fed up with being the providers for all of the failed states, and may walk away from the EU. There is talk of "secession" of the northern elements of the union to stop the drain on those economies. The southern countries would have to revert to a devalued currency in order to draw business, with some probably reverting to their national economies without union. Belgium would most likely collapse into its Dutch and French elements, and get absorbed into those larger countries.

Of course, George Soros thinks the EU should bond even closer, and become more like the United States. There isn't a common European culture or language to make that credible.

lost, you had said your family has connections to one of the pilots. what is the news recently?

One World??? Are you kidding??? Take a trip to Crimea, or China or Iran. There is no NEW WORLD ORDER. There is no order. The muslims don't comply with Old Horse Face and his boss, nor do many others. One World? Fat chance, less so now than in many a year.

One step closer toward the One World Government, one world church, one world currency, one world every thing. It is only a matter of time.
Even news journalist in Russia and China speak out about how blind Americans are. How we know more about our celebs than we do about our own political officials who are selling out our Country more so every year. They still fight to gain what Americans allow to be taken from them.
Sorry for France but even more so, sick to my stomach over my own America. The history books of the future will tell how America the greatest country in the world was brought down by her own peoples lack to rid themselves of a government that threw away the rights so many gave their lives for. A government that ignorantly spent more than they earned, saved nothing and gave more than they could afford to give. Crippling the people by not forcing them to work instead of reforming them to support themselves.

I was fighting outcome based education in the early 90s when they tried to implement that at the west Michigan school district my kids attended. I got up and spoke at the school board meeting and was not kind but civil. It's time to do the same thing with common core, however it's called, to stop our kids from being further dumbed down.

Thanks for that perspective... I think I was seeing 'old news' as 'useless data' but what I was reacting to was the aspect of 'well, there goes history, repeating itself; will we be smart enough to learn from it?'

"Where do we go" can have multiple implications, too... emigrate or try to reverse the trend.

A friend of mine says that most of the civilizations which have NOT endured were the ones that went 'over the hill' to an entitlement- and moocher-based culture and if you go too far past the 'productivity peak,' you can reach a point from which you just can't reverse the trend.

Problem is: figuring out where that point is... as well as what do individuals OR society DO at that point...

Typical. If you criticize a leader who is black or if you disagree with the method of ministering to the minorities, you're branded a racist. When you criticize the State, especially when it's in economic bad straits, and decide to leave the country, you're branded a traitor. Both examples refuse to address the issue and rely on instead making straw man attacks in an attempt to maintain the status quo.

To where can we (or they) go? America used to be the place to bail to? Hong Kong is ehh OK. Maybe Singapore? It's a little too restrictive for my liking.

Anyone interested in buying a cruise ship to make into a floating Galt's Gulch off the coast of Florida?

I think the MSM may make a big deal about a few, but to me it's all anecdotal until you look at stats like "percent of population" or some other similar ratio. "Lots" of kids fled the US in the Vietnam era but we never seemed to hear of any major impact on the US as a result. Economic? Not likely. Political? Probably more impact from those who didn't leave and stayed to protest.

But most of us here would/could have predicted this kind of situation for France to happen eventually. Question for me is: how long before the 'leaders' in France change their tune...