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The Warmongers' Brawl

Posted by ycandrea 8 years, 4 months ago to Politics
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I kind of agree with David Stockman on this. Why does the GOP think we need to be involved in war all the time?


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  • Posted by dbhalling 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    What is the pilot going to do if his plane gets hacked? - Crash into the ground. That is not a valid reason for keeping pilots in the airplane. In addition, you are ignoring the cost benefit analysis Pilots in fighter/bombers are absurd they increase the cost by a factor of at least 100 and decrease the performance by at least a factor 3.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    First of all let's destroy the propaganda myth in the last sentence. The reason most vote Republican is the death ratio of US Service personnel in wars started and conducted by Democrats.

    Secondly I dispute your one and two percent figure unless you are speaking of criminals where as it happens that number applies.

    Third ....hey dude it's the 21st century what makes women so special besides being baby factories which is what you are saying under the rest of verbiage. But if they cannot serve equal to men they deserve no equal rights such as student loan program.

    Fourth there is nothing in the Constitution to protect them from being drafted. Al it states is the age requirements for men. Nowhere does it say women are exempt. But a step further most of the draft system is not authorized either and the answer are found 9th and 10th Amendments. Useful if we still had a Constitution.

    So let's do as you say and keep women as second class citizens....come to think of it given the despicable response women showed during the Clinton years perhaps it's where they should be found.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Depleted uranium being painted as causing two headed monsters or radiation sickeess is an urban myth

    And if is downed and captured? That already happened.

    I'm wondering how much combat time you have. I just love chairborne rangers. The trouble is you 'think' and that's the fatal cop-out word. Had you said 'I believe and stated facts instead of conjecture it would sound a lot more convincing.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    One reason is the ability to opt out by being pregnant. That stems back to the days of the Womens Army Corps or WACs and I witnessed it myself on multiple occasions. Girl wanted out she got pregnant. Back then it wasn't as easy to get an abortion but that seemed the usual route...after the discharge papers were in hand. A secondary route was marriage and then discharge because of pregnancy. That kept them under the military system as a dependent.
    I would be surprised to find the same thing to one degree or another is not still occurring.

    Other women are just the opposite. But given the Israel experience which was a back against the wall driven policy I'm wondering if an all woman Amazon Corps might not be suitable. Women over the year have a records of bearing up in combat conditions and worse. I'll remind you of the Jedburgh teams that dropped into Europe and worked with the underground.

    Women have to fight against the role of baby factories just as men should be fighting against the role of simple cannon fodder. Being treated like one or the other should be a court martial offense. Sexism, racism and bigotry in any form should not be tolerated in any form. That statement starts with the government being the foremost proponent of sexism, racism, and bigotry and that is where the change needs to be made initially. So long as the government is in a do what I say not as I do mode we are stuck with the isms. I'm wondering how many of the higher brass that exist today are guilty of covering up such activities. If it's still the same.
    I rather think so when I hear terms such as ethnic exception meaning some fat asses are more equal than other fat asses.
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  • Posted by Knightdwf 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Women in the military is, all together, a horrible idea! At the very least, women in combat roles, or any role where they are on the front lines, or any place where they are likely to engage in combat. See my posting above on women in the military.

    Don't get me wrong, I am professional with the ladies, or women, I've worked with and am subordinate to. I do not disagree that some women can be equal to the task, but it would be HORRIBLE to force ALL women to sign up and be eligible for the draft! Most women are not built for combat!

    Interestingly enough, the reason why we have so many food programs in this country was to ensure that we had enough strapping and healthy young men to fight wars! When we fought the Vietnamese and they looked at the bodies of the American soldiers they had killed, they were surprised at how big our people were!

    The problem is, "progressives", so called, have been in charge of the school system in a lot of ways demeaning or down playing the exceptionalism of this country. Why are we surprised then that we have a nation of wimps that more often than not grab a camera instead of a gun when they see a crime unfolding?

    As for the draft itself, is again, a horrible idea! Only about 1 or 2% of the population is really bent on killing their fellow man (for better or worse). Only about 1 to 3% of the population ever serves in the military. With an all volunteer military, you are likely to catch those willing to fight and kill (if the need arises) for their country! Those who are not willing to fight, to kill, or to die for their country, do not belong in the military!

    We already have troubles as it is with liberals picking up guns and going on killing sprees! (All these shooting sprees, if they are not inspired by Islam, are nut job democrats!) Why give them more training on killing people?

    Like it or not, most of the war fighters that have served (voluntarily) in the military have been conservatives or Republicans!
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  • Posted by Knightdwf 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I think we should ALWAYS keep pilots in the pilot's seat whenever possible!

    What happens when a drone system gets hacked by the enemy and the drone is used against us? An autonomous drone, which is where the military is heading, would be a nightmare! Pilots, for the better or for the worst, can make moral decisions, like choosing not to hit a target because it's too close to a religious building! A mindless drone wouldn't care!

    "Not needing" a piloted fighter is NOT looking at the bigger broader picture! Just because we have the technology does NOT mean we should automatically use it! Should we be using depleted uranium shells? Should we be using MOABS or should we be using tactical nukes?
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  • Posted by Knightdwf 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Actually I think women in combat are is a horrible idea!

    There is a psychology to fighting a war, and men have a certain way of thinking separate from that of women. The Israelis found out the hard way that when women are introduced as war fighters, wars became even MORE brutal than they already are! Men are ingrained to protect women, when "their women" get injured or killed, the Israeli soldiers would lose their minds!

    Women in a war zone A: Have to worry about getting raped, and not necessarily just by the enemy... and B: Have to worry about getting pregnant! Both are a problem in the modern era! When I was in Kuwait, an incoming unit that was reliving a unit that was already there came into theater with both STDs and like half of the females in the unit had positive results for being pregnant!

    The problem is people again want to be politically correct rather than confront warfare on the terms of what true reality is! Humanism and "progressivism" minded people try to fight wars using idealism and social engineering, rather than just going with what has worked for thousands of years! Men do the fighting, women do the worrying and keep the home fires lit!
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  • Posted by Genghis 8 years, 3 months ago
    Some objective data on US Wars:
    WWI- Wilson (D)- 116k
    WWII- Roosevelt (D)- 405k
    Korea- Truman (D)- 36k
    Vietnam- Johnson (Kennedy) (D)- 59k
    About 620K- price of appeasement
    Obama/Dems starting in 2016?


    (R’s)- (I’m counting T Roosevelt as a (R) Phillipines, Guatamala/Honduras, Panama, Beruit, Grenada, Dominican, Iraq 1 and 2 and a few others

    About 14k-price of pre-emptive strategy
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  • Posted by scojohnson 8 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You find no argument from me. Depends on the agency though, defense, yes. Comes down to resources to perform though, something difficult for smaller businesses as well as past performance credentials on their own.

    I work in Solutions/BD for a larger company, we do a lot for the Dept of Energy (hydro), we have to partner on everything but the prime has to do 51% of the work,no they really do. Normally it's one cycle though, too big the second time so we find a new partner.

    I understand the thought, but it doesn't work in practice, once they are too big they usually struggle to find business to replace that govie customer. We were a $100 million company before we did business with the government so it doesn't affect us much, maybe 25% of our revenue.

    We have been transitioning from fed to local and education for the same reason though, no set asides.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "Are you offering you explanation of the world as a justification for the U.S. to do the same?"

    No. I'm just observing that the world itself isn't exactly rainbows and unicorns. I would also point out that there is a difference between inciting war and getting pulled into a war as a result of alliances and allegiances. Bellicosity results in the instigation of conflict; many of the wars we have been involved in have been to protect interests and allies. Now I'm not trying to justify every involvement in conflict we've been associated with, but I do point out that to state that the United States has historically been instigating wars isn't justified IMHO. In the last twenty years or so? Perhaps one can make a stronger case for that.

    And I agree with George Washington. He was probably the best President we have ever had.
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  • Posted by $ TomB666 8 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Your argument roughly parallels the NFL owners arguments as to why cities should spend billions buying them new stadiums - which does not work out as they forecast.

    I am familiar with all the preferences given to special groups in federal contracts - I was a contracting officer for the USAF during a large part of my 25 years of service. In reality those small business/minority preferences make more money for the major defense contractors then they do for the 'disadvantaged' businesses they are supposed to help. For every gimmick the govmt dreams up, somebody figures a way to play it to his advantage.

    I agree that the Joint Strike Fighter is made of pieces from just about every state (maybe even every state) and that is to buy votes. You local congressman can tell his constituents that HE brought all those good jobs to the district.

    What needs to be considered is that if those bright people were not employed building weapons, what would they be building? I mean no sarcasm here - defense contractors employ a lot of highly skilled and intelligent people. Defense contractors like govmt work because profits are guaranteed! If they were in a competitive market they might have to fight for profits. In my opinion a lot of defense money is wasted and the opportunity cost of all the things not being done because efforts are being expended on bombs instead of more useful things is just plain tragic.
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  • Posted by Esceptico 8 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I am confused. Are you offering you explanation of the world as a justification for the U.S. to do the same? President Washington knew of the bellicose history when he admonished, in his farewell address, that the U.S. should trade with all and become involved with the internal politics of none. Perhaps, had we followed that advice, we would not have the history of constant war since the founding.
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  • Posted by 8 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Why do you find it necessary to resort to name calling? You have not presented anything worth rebutting. Go somewhere else and spew your hate. Gross, infantile words are used by those who cannot express themselves.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Sorryi I missed this one YES and it was as I suspected another wise choice in not having TV I found nothing in there except the explanation on that ten sailor incident worth more than the campaign bombast and having little to do with reality or what they are really going to do - if they even know.

    On schedule it marked the beginning of negative campaigning.

    Seven podiums? Each and their own stage. One stands on a podium or platform or stage and behind a lectern or similar Wish these reporters would invest in a dictionary.

    As for the verbiage ....worthless It will change five or six times as they play to whichever segment of the population is watching or listening or attending and in the end it's only a question of how far to the left they will move the center of the left this time.

    I am in agree ment with David McNab (posted further down the thread) of not using left and right but just Government and Citizens. Makes more sense as does dumping conservative and liberal Too many definitions by too many factions and too damn many illiterate reporters.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Relax, BuddyL. While this is a place for open discussion, we must keep it civil and rational discussion. Personal insults are not a form of civil, rational discussion.
    First, I didn't say "America has been stealing for centuries." I said this was an excuse to wage war that had been used for centuries to wage war, murder innocent people, and steal resources.
    The neocons are one group in the US that are using the excuse to wage war and kill innocent people. The current administration has continued using the excuse as well. Neither represents the best interests of the American people.
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  • Posted by BuddyLama 8 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    True, that. (The above drone attack history video begins in 2004.) America declared war in WW-II only AFTER Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, AFTER Japan and Germany declared war on US, and a full year & more AFTER the Aussies and Canadians and others had already joined the war.
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  • -2
    Posted by BuddyLama 8 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    ^CowardlyAsshole. Clearly you can't handle the truth, else you would've attempted to offer a factual rebuttal. Instead you try to censor information that contradicts your lies. FU
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    tut tut tut....public consumption verbiage is only to fool people into voting one way or the other without realizing they are voting for the same thing. GOP are part of the left. Part of the left right BS David McNab referred to so I'm following his lead on that

    The rule is what they say is not what they are going to do. Was it ever different? No. Besides the Democrats hold first place when it comes to war mongering that stuff was just the Rinos supporting the Dinos.
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