Good government is inefficient government in the realm of tax collection.

Posted by $ Olduglycarl 8 years, 5 months ago to Economics
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THE LAFFER CURVE

Arthur Laffer recently wrote a defense of the corporate VAT tax substitution being proposed by Rand Paul and Ted Cruz.

Dr. Laffer understands that there are conservative opponents of his flat VAT tax plan. He doesn't seem to know why. I know why. The reason is expressed by Dr. Laffer.

The U.S. government should collect taxes in the most efficient way possible so as to do the least damage to the economy.

This sounds good. In fact, it is conceptually inaccurate and highly misleading. The opponents of Dr. Laffer's famous curve -- I am among them -- line up against "the most efficient way possible" for the government to collect taxes. Why? Because we do not want efficient tax collection. We want inefficient tax collection. Why? Because we want the least damage done to personal liberty. (The economy can look out for itself.)

Good government is inefficient government in the realm of tax collection. Here, waste is good -- morally and technically.


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  • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    So in my State, it used to be that the State Sales tax was 4%. Then the politicians persuaded everyone that in order to get through the hard times they needed to up that to 5%, but that it was only going to be temporary. They even wrote the expiration into the bill. It passed, but of course the government got dependent on having that extra money - even when they ran surpluses - and so when it came time for the automatic sunset to kick in, they hastily passed a bill to make the tax rate permanent. Then only a few short years ago they voted to up that rate yet again to 6%. So I'm not sure I buy the argument that any one tax rate is any more immune to political wrangling than another.

    Do I favor the idea of zero federal income taxes? Absolutely. I'm not really sure about the State side, however. I've lived in a state which had no income tax (as does my brother right now), and all that it does is shift taxation to property taxes. One can argue that one can have more local effect on property taxes because of representative government, but I'd be curious to see if that premise really holds, as in my experience, I find that assertion of extremely dubious credentials.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    With income tax you have no choice except cheating on your taxes by some other groups standards who have the sole right to change the rate with zero notice..

    With a consumption tax, as explained elsewhere, the citizen controls taxes and therefore government expenditures by spending decisions.

    One is fascist smal 'f' in that it is useful for those who want government over citizens and choose the method that says any means and completely - control.

    One is the opposite and lives up to the principles of freedom for those who choose citizens over government.

    Nothing more than that.

    Point is with the flat tax, the enhanced tax, the diverted through business tax government controls you. with the end user consumption tax you control that Mayor without resorting to buying the election results.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "Agreed but only if you are into fascism and accept the tax level you set will not be the tax level you pay in short order. "

    ??? I'd appreciate a little more into your thought process here. The problem with raising taxes is that the more you raise them, the larger the costs on the economy as compared to the payback up to the point where all future increases actually begin damaging the economy. I don't really see that as a sliding scale subject to manipulation by politicians, but maybe that's just because I'm an idealist.

    And trust me, we've been dealing with a Democratic Mayor for quite some time now who tries to keep insisting that the city needs to raise taxes and impact fees and all kinds of things in order to facilitate a larger budget for social services, so your analogy isn't lost on me. We do have a major university here, but most of our business is high-tech.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Agreed but only if you are into fascism and accept the tax level you set will not be the tax level you pay in short order.

    Short story about Ashland, Oregon home of Sock or Southern Oregon State College which is now a University. For a town with that much brain power one wonders about the following.

    City fathers decided to have a sales tax and used restaurants or prepared foods as the camel's nose. One of the provisions was 1% but with 90 days notice the city council could raise it to 5%. After all only the tourists will pay it. It was narrowly defeated. Next up was an unfunded mandate from the feds for new city and water systems., Complete everything. City couldn't afford it in the time allowed. Think of the fines and besides we'll get almost automatic grants to help pay the bill but it's ...not ...quite...enough. But if we had that 1% tax then all is golden. This time it narrowly passed, The next day the 90 day notice was filed and three months later the locals began going to the next town to dine out the word got around and he tourist trade slacked. Eventually it recovered and last I heard the first sales tax in Oregon was widened to include other forms of business.

    For a college town they sure had a lot of dumb asses.

    That's income tax., Slice it. dice it, remix it, repackage it redefine it. It is still a gun to your head and so is this new version VAT on business only.

    Are you from a college town?
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  • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 5 months ago
    I prefer the point argued by Dan Mitchell of the Cato institute. He argues that tax rates should be set at the point that encourages economic growth and still maintains the basic functions of government. He presents a pretty good rationale for his argument here:
    http://www.cato.org/publications/comm...

    Note that he presents the theory of the Laffer Curve, but he emphasizes that it isn't actually the revenue-maximizing point of the Curve we should focus on, but the economically-maximizing point.

    He also makes a great argument for the flat tax here: http://www.unitedliberty.org/articles...
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    AAAARRRGGGHHH!
    Give me back Vincent Price!
    By the way, if you are a movie buff, go see "Victor Frankenstein." It's filled with subtle references to past Frankenstein movies. Which reminds me of, the horror senator from Minnesota, Al Franken(stein).
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Oh yes. Good old Mac A. Velli.
    I wish I had a stuffed full size doll of him so whenever I feel frustrated by someone using his tactics, I'd take a bataka and beat the living crap out of him.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Because the majority of the people that count gave it to the government. Same as they gave them the power to launder tax dollars, and having given that power refused to do anything to take it back. Ergo Sum the country as a whole and in general deserves what it got and what it consistently one election after the other overwhelmingly voted for. I see this one going 95% to 5% in favor of whomever is elected. Just like most of the others. Assuredly no worse than 90% to 10%. But that is because i haven't reviewed all the State election laws.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 5 months ago
    Good Mental Twist, Carl !

    I wish that they were so inefficient that they would stay at home
    and collect no taxes at all, some days. . most of the stuff which
    the government does with my bucks is illegitimate! -- j
    .
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Damn, Michael, you are an old curmudgeon. I like it. You see, you're the kind of person needed to be whispering in the executives ear. (Hah! The President Whisperer?) Instead, he'll probably get the usual coven of sycophants.
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Who knows what lurks beyond our earthly realm. Will it be for better or worse; or is the grass as seen from here, appear, greener?
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 5 months ago
    Good Gravy!
    The more inefficient the better? I like it. Wish I had thought of it. However, since I fear the government (they have more guns than me) Inefficiency also means mistakes, and mistakes made on citizens in a negative way can irrevocably damage them. The IRS is a lumbering monster but also a quick draw artist who shoots first and asks questions later. It has been used by the powers-that-be in Washington to scare, intimidate and destroy perceived enemies.
    "there's a helluva good universe next door -- let's go." -- e. e. cummings
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  • Posted by term2 8 years, 5 months ago
    I think governments tax just up to the breaking point where the people revolt. So if the cost of collecting is less,the government just get s to keep more, but the overall tax take from the ciizens stays the same. The more the government gets to keep, the more control they can exert on us. Therefore, the goal should be to keep government very inefficient so its effects on personal liberty are less. After all, we really dont NEED most of the services our governments provide and we would be better off without them.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    In that case press on! When there are no other choices possible whatever is left no matter how radical...... etc. I've never fought a war without bullets before. But the principles are the same as our the odds. 50 50 win or lose. For the couch potatoes it's zero to 100 and lose. Bugler! Sound The Charge!
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Like any other mentor program, one must be proficient to mentor others, answer their questions, start a local club house etc. (something I'd like to do but writing the next book and promoting my first takes much of my time. Mark Hamilton is definitely has an objectivist point of view. I learned about Ayn Rand in his manuscripts. I have incorporated Neothink concepts and discussions in my book.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Signed up on the mailing list. They didn't include Mexico so I put my official residence in the US although I don't live there that much. What is mentor program?
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