With current events going as they are and Rand set to win I don't think this will be needed anymore. Could we talk about ideas on phone instead mines encrypted is yours?

I mean don't we all wish it was, but the feds would never allow it to exist, I mean like where would we put up our homes, how would we pay for the land and lastly wouldn't this cause anarchy overall, because of the way that people would want to take what we have.

There could be no such GG.
Find an island unowned by any government....

Texas has made some noise about seceding before. I think you're right and it would have to be a group of States. Even then we risk another Civil War. Then again, this government is so far in debt it may not be able to afford it.

Now we're talking about secession; I'm hoping that I could have a part in making it happen. If enough states vote for it and have the National Guard along with local militias could sustain the borders of their respective states then a visible Gulch is possible. A Gulch could be set up in each seceeded state. They will able to drive the economy in those states. Then powerful passive devises would be invented and used to protect the New Confederat States of America.

Of course. Well...all of these families have been thinking about moving...to anywhere we can keep the government ghouls off of our kids.

Discussions and calculations continue...

Handyman: I love your "marauding Baptists..."!
And your intriguing comment.

"how do we keep people out?"
Ideally, they wouldn't offer any handouts and they wouldn't care who visited. In practice this leads to problems that I don't have answers for. In my fantasy scenario above, there's a checkpoint next to the big dollar sign at the border where they scan passports to have records of who visited, but they don't turn anyone away.

Going to involve moving and all that is involved. I think for something really significant as this, one has to plan, but then just take the plunge and DO IT.

Yeah, thanks. I immediately thought of Waco with this. But, in our case (given the group of interest here) there would be zero organized religion. I think that would be helpful. It would be a very low-profile thing. It might be as simple as me owning the land, carrying the paper on the structures, and/or charging rent from the occupants. ...just churning the ideas in my head. It all could have real challenges if there are one or two nuts involved. I immediately know of four other families interested who are all good, informed folks.

Well, I know that the inhabitants I deal with up there, in general, are sick of government largesse. They were also devastated by the tree hugger spotted owl fiasco. So, they grow weed now vs cutting trees.

Excellent JC. Not publicly stating our Philosophy is a great idea. We would control the educational system and potentially by the time we were perceived as a threat we would have changed enough minds that it would be too late. Interesting...

Well said. I originally posted this wondering how we would deal with outsiders wanting in. Now I think we would never get up and running at all.

Unless you have a really significant amount of money to buy that island and have more money to put into the infrastructure and more money still for defense (to deter who might want to take it back after you develop it), it just isn't feasible. Countries outside the US that would sell their land to a large group of foreigners for development are most likely to not be dependable (politically) or secure (economically). And that is really way too big of a risk where everyone could lose everything. I have thought about this for some time and I have had to always come back to the US as offering the best deal where you would, first of all, have rights as citizens under the law. If America goes down so does the protection of its citizens wherever they may be in the world. Ultimately, the best bang for your buck, with specific rights and a strong military already in place is here in the US. And you can recede into the background rather easily if you do the few cardinal requirements, i.e, taxes. But you would have to pay taxes in any country.

Also, if you move out of the US, I believe you would be hard pressed to get more than a handful of Gulchers to make that move. It may not be storybook perfection, remaining in the US, but it does most likely offer the best deal. You could live, create and operate as Objectivists in relative obscurity. So, unless you plan to run drugs, produce moonshine and engage in illegal gambling you would have nothing of interest to anyone. If it is an end of society scenario (Walking Dead) then repercussions would be felt eventually around the world.

Rich, "hiding in plane sight" is exactly what it states. If you develop land and build housing and infrastructure- there is nothing unusual about this. New technology in solar energy, battery powered and stored energy (Tesla) and wind systems along with water recycling systems are becoming more dependable and affordable. You would have grid services but you would plan for a fully independent system, off the grid, without advertising it- call it a "green energy-saving backup system" that nobody outside really needs to know about. Your land development comes with a contained perimeter -a wall with top of the line security systems.

Since it is inconsequential, you do not state your philosophy or your reasons. You have your investors- nothing unusual. You decide how you will sell property rights in your development and to whom. Now, here is where you would need to carefully plan your internal strategy. For example, there are specific laws for different types of housing. For example, a 55+ condominium in a community has certain legal privileges. You could make part or all of your housing development a "Co-op" which legally owns title to the property and the structures where home owners are actually stockholders and are issued stock certificates. And the Association is the legal entity. This gives everyone voting rights in all decisions. Your development should consider having various combinations, e.g., single family homes, town houses, condominiums and rental apartments (for visiting family members and Gulchers who cannot stay full time or want to rent instead of own). You could also develop a commercial annex next door or down the road. Where businesses, and services would be located. There are many reasons as to why you would want the commercial-business complex to be separate from the residential.

Isolation is, after all; what many are doing nowadays anyways. Eventually, everyone is drawn into the circus. To be stealth is, of course; a way to go without notice and all this means. Both encouragement and envy, support and hate. Today, privacy is practically unattainable really. It has become a luxury we pay for.

Should there exist a haven well, the minute it goes public is the moment of it´s own demise. Somethings are better left unsaid.

A visible Gulch would be subject to many conspiracies...Just like America has been...

Setting up any kind of geographically and politically distinct area as a Galt’s Gulch has so many hurdles and impracticalities in today’s world that devoting time and energy to the notion is an enormous waste. As noted elsewhere, Rand set it up as a literary device to illustrate how an ideal society might look. The only reason I can see to continue imagining such a place is to explore various ideas and policies that might be applicable in such a society.

For now and the foreseeable future, Objectivists’ energies could be put to much more productive use exploring how local Objectivist networks can be started, nurtured and grown into viable and vibrant societies within the existing fabric of political boundaries. The practicality is there. As noted by term2, doing some of the things religions do offer a blueprint for one way to promote activities and interactions that Objectivists within a reasonable distance would value. I shouldn’t have to mention it, but, of course, I’m not suggesting religion as a philosophical model, but as an organizational model. Perhaps social organizations like the Elks Club, VFW, etc. are a better organizational model.

Such a network would be visible – as visible as any church, business, or social organization. Any fears of the IRS or marauding Baptists coming to shut you down are just as fanciful as waiting for the real Galt’s Gulch to appear. If Mosques aren’t being shut down, neither will your local Objectivist meeting hall.

Having such a local organization, of course, does not allow one to escape existing taxes, unreasonable laws and ordinances and other oppressions and annoyances of municipal, county, state and federal entities. You might say, “well, then what is the point of doing so?” If we, as participants in local Objectivist networks, put as much time and effort into nurturing our own society-within-a-society (including overturning or doing end runs around oppressive laws) as we do in dreaming about the fantasy of a geographically distinct gulch (presumably set up by someone else?) we would be making concrete progress toward the kind of society we would like eventually to actually live in.

Objectivists have to make a choice: continue fantasying about a gulch or actually devising plans to find ways that promote interactions of all kinds with nearby Objectivists. The possibilities are limitless. Is anybody doing it?

I'm relatively certain that that's true. . sad. -- j
.

it was over a long time ago and is dead

setting it up as a religion seems to be effective. no one wants to mess as much with religions

When I was a kid, we believed that yes, there was evil in the world, and yes, it might hurt us, but we were the good guys and we'll always come out on top in the end. Now-- not so much.

I can't help wondering which side would rule "Jefferson" if it did achieve statehood. The Ecotopians, or the Vonuists?

Please stop beating this dead horse (on many threads).