AP FACT CHECK: The Republican debaters and the facts - Galt's Gulch

Remove this ad.

2

AP FACT CHECK: The Republican debaters and the facts

Posted by nickursis 8 years, 6 months ago to Government

10 comments | Share | Flag

Really?: The money from Social Security has been spent, but Social Security holds Treasury bonds worth $2.7 trillion, backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government. Saying the money has been stolen assumes that the federal government will not honor the bonds.
Just one example of how the media will subject a Reblicrat to intense scrutiny yet I have failed to find similar dissection of the Demcraps specious claims from their love fest. I an any case, the government "borrowing" is essentially the same as "stealing", otherwise, they would not be whining and moaning about the increasing payouts and the need to "overhaul" SS. BS from some real BSers here....

SOURCE URL: http://news.yahoo.com/ap-fact-check-republican-debaters-facts-005112443--election.html#

Add Comment

All Comments Hide marked as read Mark all as read

2

Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 6 months ago

If putting the money in an investment vehicle considered to be the standard for the lowest-risk debt instrument in the world is considered stealing, what wouldn't be stealing?

Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink
- 1
  
  Posted by nickursis 8 years, 6 months ago
  
  That assumes the money is there. Right now all they have is supposed Treasury notes, and "debt instruments" of some kind. Last I heard, SS was a huge building of file cabinets filled with treasury notes and when they went to redeem them, they were given new ones. Maybe that changed but that was a couple years ago.
  
  Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink
  - 2
    
    Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 6 months ago
    
    Where should they be storing the trust fund?
    
    Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink
    - 1
      
      Posted by nickursis 8 years, 6 months ago
      
      No wheres where they can touch it except to make payments. It was not a slush fund, it was my money they were keepingin trust. If a trustee gave away their trust funds to someone else, they would go to jail, why not the Feds? SS is now paid from the budget each year, funneled through the trust account, not from it's assetts. Unless you are getting a govt bnd due in 30 years each month in the mail.....
      
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink
      - 2
        
        Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 6 months ago
        
        I do not understand this. Trust funds invest in instruments of debt and equity (i.e. give away their trust funds to someone else) all the time. What's the other choice?
        
        I do get the argument about rate risk, but I think it's minor, and they would be exposed to it with any long-term bond. I also think the whole system of having very little trust find, with most of money just flowing in from workers and out to beneficiaries, is wrong.
        
        I have no problem with holding the funds in Treasuries. I wouldn't want them investing in debt/equity instruments issued by private enterprise because of the obvious potential for corruption. Treasuries are the logical choice.
        
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink
        
        -
        
        1
        
        Posted by nickursis 8 years, 5 months ago
        
        CG, I guess it is a matter of trust. The "dollar" as such, does not exist. It is a figment of the Federal Reserves "full faith and credit". Other than being to big to fail, I would bet that any credit scoring company would give the US about a 500. While they took the same funny money away and gave paper back, I just cannot believe, or come to believe , that these crooks will ever honor all those debts, rather, they have a consistent policy (as do all the states), of never paying back a debt, but simply keeping the cycle going with refinancing with more debt. Hence, 17 trillion is owed. At some point, the rest of the world will realize that the US can never repay all the "loans" financed with treasury notes, and they will become worthless. Why couldn't it have been tangibles? Gold or other precious metals. This is the same problem I have with any other "retirement system". Remember Enron gave their people a "GREAT" retirement plan, and it all became so much trash, except for the lucky few insiders who dumped all their stock ahead of time and never were prosecuted. As far as I can tell, SS is just Enron on a much bigger scale. Maybe I am wrong, and they will be able to squeeze 20 more years out of this mess...but I doubt it.
        
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink
        
        -
        
        2
        
        Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 5 months ago
        
        This is essentially saying the entire global financial system is a scam. This seems like a philosophical point. Every day it brings capital to people with good idea who provide goods and services to willing customers. Maybe it could be improved, less prone to cronyism, less volatile, etc, but you're saying something's a scam because it operates in the global financial system. Every enterprise on earth is a scam by this reckoning.
        
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink
        
        -
        
        1
        
        Posted by nickursis 8 years, 5 months ago
        
        Exactly right. Pretty much all currency today is fiat. There is no intrinsic value associated with it. I think that was one of AR points in AS, and why she made her symbol a gold dollar coin. Remember the Gulch only used hard currency. The value of any currency is based on something, in today's case, they are all based on what everyone else perceives it's value to be. If the Yuan became the world currency base (replacing the dollar) we would all be toast. That is my point. Wiemar Germany proved it as well.
        
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink
        
        -
        
        2
        
        Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 5 months ago
        
        I believe currency should be fiat, not based on usable assets. But there should be competition, like BitCoin or whatever people want to use. All the value is in our serving one another in mutually agreed trades. We could use bits in a computer. It doesn't matter.
        
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink
        
        1
        
        Posted by nickursis 8 years, 5 months ago
        
        That does get to the root of the question of what is value. As long as people believe there is value, there is trade. I still am not of the belief that exchanging one note for another is the right thing, but we will see what happens down the road. Remember, the government has changed SS numerous times "to control costs". I question why that would be needed if their excessive tax rate was sufficient to fund it. When I joined the Navy, they promised lifelong medical care after retirement. Nope. Nada. After that I learned to always question any commitment they make.
        
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink

Comment hidden.