This couldn't open any ugly doors now, could it?

Posted by deleted 8 years, 7 months ago to News
55 comments | Share | Flag

If you think we have too many moochers in the world now, just wait.

All Comments

  • Posted by cranedragon 8 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    There are two different arguments there -- one is, does the government have the right to tell me what I can and can't eat, drink, ingest, smoke, or inject? In a free society the answer should be a resounding "No". Or even, "hell, no". The second argument is, well, if we make all of those addicting substances legal and freely available, the welfare rolls will swell with hordes of wasted or twitching addicts unable to hold down a job and pay their bills. That argument uses today's wrongs -- taxing the productive and frugal to support the wastrels -- to prevent all of us from making our own choices.

    We need to be very clear on our principles, and then do all that we can to shout those principles from the rooftops. Let Freedom Ring. I think that a well-articulated position that it is not the business of government to protect adults from the consequences of their choices would resonate with a lot of people.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "No. Too much is illegal."
    Yes. It not only wastes money but undermines the whole concept of the law.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Comment hidden due to member score or comment score too low. View Comment
  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Name them. you have a problem with English language? Did Edison use heroin? Your first claim. Methinks the word is bogus.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by DrZarkov99 8 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I agree. The list is limited to LSD, cocaine, amphetamines, and marijuana. I've known long haul truckers that relied on amphetamines, but I don't know if there's been any effort to tie accidents to amphetamine use. One of the worst forms of addiction is methamphetamine use, which exhibits hyperactivity that makes it nearly impossible for the addict to concentrate on a task.

    There have been articles, as the one cited in the UK study that purport to the conclusion that if you make enough money, you can be a productive, successful addict, even with heroin. However, if we look at the most forgiving segment of our American society, Hollywood, excessive drug use quickly leads to unemployment, due to the unreliability of the addict. Robert Downey Jr. is a prime example, since even his Oscar-winning portrayal of Charlie Chaplin couldn't offset his erratic behavior. Downey rescued himself by kicking the habit and begging for the role of Tony Stark (Ironman).
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by DrZarkov99 8 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The headache comes when that "group of one" can't avoid interacting with any other one that doesn't share the Gulch philosophy. There was a good reason for the Gulch, as it isolated the individualist Gulchers from outside influence until the outsiders were without hope from the system they'd been subject to, ready for what the Gulch had to offer. The problem with any "pure" ideology, and Objectiviism is no exception, is that they don't work as expected unless a significant majority agree with the principles.

    Until the United States was formed, the idea of bottom up government, focused first on the individual was non-existent. The idea of a society made up of self reliant individuals should have been the next logical step, but humans are truly amazing in their ability to screw up a good idea.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Comment hidden due to member score or comment score too low. View Comment
  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    System? Here's a system.

    Let's see if I can do this from memory.."Well you have to understand they come from a deprived childhood with no self esteem and it's our duty to ....."

    Now this other system is also from memory. "Bang"

    The Third Eye will certainly give the ability to see more clearly - visual acuity is everything. And clear the cells for others. Elegant solution and the tax money can go to other more needy causes. What was your next 'how about?'

    Right now I can't think of a better way to end my time on earth.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ Abaco 8 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You bet. How about all those child molesters that live near schools? The system couldn't care less about the law-abiding people.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Comment hidden due to member score or comment score too low. View Comment
  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The rules invariably in any totalitarian system are at the whim of a ruling class. In other words a modern version of the old aristocracy and neo-feudalism complete with Tzars, Apparatchiks, and Serfs/cannon fodder.

    We had the best way out of that and it failed. So I opt for whatever class is hiring in whatever system on top for my next go round. This one was a waste of time and effort.

    Assuming you can afford my rates.

    Professional Soldiers point of view.

    No nation has lasted 200 years without getting an elitist ruling class and all the trimmings no matter what the first theory or plan might have been.

    Invariably the general public gave them the power. ergo sum why not start working for someone at the top? But never forget one is working for oneself.

    That's an answer that covers all possibilities as long as humans are humans are humans. Humans can't handle the responsibility of freedom.

    Just to throw some gas on the fire. But as for following an ideology. What I just said comes closer than anything yet proposed.

    As for following the rules or even working together for a common cause? Maybe for five minutes.




    .
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by DrZarkov99 8 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I think we agree. Transition to a rational society takes time, just as the current attempt to "nudge" people to accept a completely Authoritarian society has. Hopefully we can reverse the direction.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ CBJ 8 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    “’Cases have been documented of long-term heroin addicts with stable 10- and 20-year work histories’ . . . Heroin is believed to be responsible for substantial lost productivity, however the effects of the drug itself are often confused with the effects of the ‘junkie’ lifestyle . . . During the so-called ‘British System’ set up by the Rolleston commission early in the 20th Century and continuing until the end of the 1960s, many addicts received clean supplies of heroin from their doctors, and continued to function normally in society.”
    http://www.idmu.co.uk/hemployment.htm
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ CBJ 8 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    There's a difference between an ultimate goal and a transitional policy that moves us in the direction of that goal. It was not clear to me that your previous post was advocating a transitional policy. If this is the case, I agree that it would be an improvement over the current situation.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by DrZarkov99 8 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    If you choose to bail out of organized society (which is pretty difficult, short of leaving the planet, as has been discussed in other forums here) you can ignore other members of that society. It's pretty tough to do so when drunks, junkies, and criminals cross your life in the real world.

    In an Objectivist society, drug use would be an open choice, with those choosing a self destructive path taking themselves to an early grave without interference. We aren't yet participants in such a society, so I try address these things in the real world for the time being.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ CBJ 8 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I agree, but the proposal might encourage some people (including officials of various governments) to consider the arguments for decriminalization, who would otherwise not have done so. It's a step in the right direction.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ Abaco 8 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    No. Too much is illegal.

    I drink wine about every-other night. I don't think what I do is any better than people I know, good family people, who spark up a joint after putting the kids to bed. That's not my thing, at all.

    Too much government...
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ CBJ 8 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Government's purpose is to protect us from initiation of force, not to regulate our behavior, decide which drugs are suitable for our use, and make our health decisions for us. If drug use needs to be addressed as a health problem, what about sugar use? Or lack of exercise? Or violence in movies or on television? Should alcohol use require a prescription? A free society is not compatible with a government that controls our behavior based on what it decides is good for us.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Comment hidden due to member score or comment score too low. View Comment
  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    We've had some years of it so see my question above. How many three strikers whose third strike was marijuana were released and how many real felons jailed? Or was that part forgotten? You mean we are holding people in prison for what is legal?
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Comment hidden due to member score or comment score too low. View Comment
  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    But has anyone statistics on numbers of three strikes prisoners whose third strike was marijuana? The big argument was it would empty the jails and leave room for the real felons. So? how many out and how many felons in? Or were the three striker marijuana prisoners never released or never existed to begin with.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Comment hidden due to member score or comment score too low. View Comment
  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The list does not mention heroin and the last item marijuana has been argued as not a drug . What does one have to do with the other? Gotta do better in this forum. You are arguing like a Democrat thinking saying is the same as doing.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Comment hidden due to member score or comment score too low. View Comment
  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Did Edison uise Heroin? Name the others that used heroin and were productive. Your post is in two parts and disconnected. Sentence A modified by Sentence B does not equal Sentence C.

    Or you wait until the day is more productive.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ CBJ 8 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The "narco-terrorist state" exists courtesy of our anti-drug laws, just as home-grown gangsterism thrived in the 1920s thanks to Prohibition. Virtually all drugs were legal in the 19th century, and Mexico was not a "narco-terrorist state" at the time. Prohibition spawns crime.
    Reply | Permalink  

  • Comment hidden. Undo