An Objectivist Constitution

Posted by jrberts5 10 years, 3 months ago to Politics
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At some point, either in the somewhat distant future of this country or in secret enclaves hidden throughout it very soon, it will be necessary to write a document defining government and its role in guaranteeing freedom. I would be curious to see suggestions from the people on this website as to how such a document might read.


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  • Posted by $ blarman 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The other one I would add is an automatic twilight provision on any government program that either raises or spends money. None of these spending bills (like Obamacare) that would operate in perpetuity after being forced through the Legislature. Senators and Representatives alike would have to be responsible for their spending and taxing votes every time they were up for re-election.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You are correct. I think this observation is particularly applicable:

    "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -- John Adams

    My interpretation: the Constitution is only as good as the intent of the people to control themselves. It provides the maximum amount of freedom, but freedom comes with responsibility (see Benjamin Franklin). Many people in today's society don't want the responsibility that comes with freedom, so they vote for their own enslavement. They don't want the risk of making their own fortunes, so they infringe on others.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You are correct. Many (most) people aren't taught what the environment was like in the earliest years of our nation. It was not merely that some didn't have the right to vote, only property (land) owners voted. It was also common belief that the citizens militia was not some defined organization such as the state National Guard (how inappropriately named), rather every man of age (which was in the early teens, not 18 or 21) was expected to pick up their long gun and rally to protect their town, county, and state - against internal as well as external threats. And if requested, they could attach themselves to the national militia.
    The founding fathers were just as much afraid of an overbearing national government oppressing the citizens as a foreign threat invading.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Indeed the Constitution is a great document. This whole discussion reminds me of Ben Franklin's quote, "“A Republic, if you can keep it.”
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Thanks for the well wishes. I'll need them. If you're near east central Florida and you would like to share some of your experience, I'll pay for your dinner and trip to talk to some young Galts in training. Florida Tech isn't quite the Patrick Henry University, but it's about as close as you are going to find. Your area within the chemicals business is the one that is hardest to teach in school.
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  • Posted by mccannon01 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    When I recently decided to retire, I was a process controls programmer for chemical making and manufacturing systems. I contracted through an engineering firm to companies requiring my skills. I've been programming since 1972. Good luck on your 3D venture.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I am a chemical, biomedical, and materials engineer, but not a controls engineer. I specialize in nanotechnology. I completely agree that my criteria need more thought. Most good ideas need iterated upon before implementation. Even the Constitution had its Articles of Confederation. I couldn't agree more regarding Bush 43's attempt to privatize SS; it was one of the few good things he tried to do. I am 47, meaning that I was two months two young to vote for Reagan the second time. This also means that, in a general election, I have not had anyone to vote FOR in my lifetime that had a chance to win. As an example, back in the 2008 Republican primary, I ranked Romney 9th and McCain 10th (and last) on my list of Republican candidates to consider. Thus, in a general election, I have not voted for either of the top two candidates in my lifetime. I am neither young enough to have any hope that the S will HTF in my lifetime nor quite wealthy enough to retire. The two small businesses that I was a minor partner have been bought out (actually a good thing in both cases). In addition to my professorial duties, I am considering starting a new 3D printing business geared toward printing metals for a couple of industries and/or polymers for tissue scaffolding. Both require more precision than is currently available.
    I am more like Quentin Daniels than Galt.
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  • Posted by mccannon01 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Jbrenner, these government programs shouldn't have been started in the first place, but we are stuck with them until TSHTF, or until our so called representatives find a way to privatize them. I think TSHTF will come first.

    What I wished to point out to you is your criteria for voting rights needs a bit more thought. Many of us producers had a portion of that production confiscated in the name of one government program or another and now that we are in the winter of our life spans we want the expected return or protections. When I was much younger I could see a way out of this mess before it got too bad (by gradual privatization) but by the end of the 80s or early 90s I felt it was too late. Look at the kick in the teeth Bush 43 got for bringing up the subject. Too late.

    Side note: You mentioned PID controls. Are you a process control engineer or technician?
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  • Posted by LarryHeart 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    See above and join the group Americans for the Liberty Amendments where we do discuss Levin's Amendments
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    This is understandable, but unfortunate. Whether it is the continued forced "contribution" to the SS Ponzi scheme delaying the retirement of younger persons or the decreased retirement accumulation for seniors, the SS Ponzi scheme is intolerable. The restriction to "producers only" having the right to vote as I have outlined (perhaps rather poorly) below is meant as a stronger control (as in PID engineering controls) against the tyranny of a democracy voting to defund its most productive citizens. Everyone should read what the Founding Fathers wrote about how detestable democracies were/are. America was founded as a republic. With the passage of several amendments (particularly the 17th), America has become a democracy. Just listen to how few people refer to America as a constitutionally-limited republic vs. a democracy.
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  • Posted by mccannon01 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Too late for me, unfortunately. I PAID into the SS Ponzi all my working life and now that I've retired, I want the ROI regardless of what other sources of income I may have.
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  • Posted by rlewellen 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I should have said using. Money the focus of a philosopher is a very odd thing.
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  • Posted by Temlakos 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Destroying? No. He kept casualties to a minimum during all his operations. And the prizes he took contained cargo that the government had either stolen or bought with stolen money.
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  • -1
    Posted by rlewellen 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Ragnar was intent on being a philosopher. The pirate philosopher. Working on minds that didn't belong to him by using destroying that which didn't belong to him. He is Ayn Rand.
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  • Posted by Temlakos 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    If you're asking what function Hank Rearden might have served as a member of the Committee of Safety--well, I admit I'm still speculating. But remember that when Rearden vanished, a good part of his workforce vanished with him? Remember what Jim Taggart breathlessly said: "A whole bunch of them vanished! The mills superintendent, the chief metallurgist, the chief engineer, Rearden's secretary, even the hospital doctor! And G_d knows how many others!"

    Well, suppose he defected with enough workers to start building a mill in the valley? Suppose, after his experience at the old mill (the riot and all), he had those people double as his own security force? Suppose Francisco noticed that and asked him to join the Committee and serve as a Chief of Homeland Security?

    Dagny's contribution would be a transportation system. After she joined the Gulch, she would begin at once to build the railroad she said she could build.
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  • Posted by rlewellen 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    See every time you set up a constitutional convention you run the risk of lobbyists destroying the whole document. We have a quandry right now we are sitting in the lobbyist's lair.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I think you mean it hasn't been followed. And to that I would agree. That doesn't negate the document, merely the implementation and conduct of those not following it.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Any form of governmental structure can function well and in the interests of the people at large so long as those in power are benevolent - don't misconstrue this statement, I said government not economy. So, even a dictator, if benevolent, can run a thriving society. The problem is that rarely do those people or their successors remain so. Thus, over time, any system becomes corrupt as the people in the system are corruptible. The governmental systems need to have mechanisms to prevent that corruption.
    In the case of the US, allowing universal franchise, allowing citizenship based strictly on being born on American soil, and the 17th amendment have served to corrupt the government via the people comprising the elected ranks.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Certainly Dr. Zarkov's statements are correct. The most important of these is the 17th amendment repeal. States have no say anymore, leaving them to be led around by their Department of Education and Department of Health and Human Services puppet masters in the form of grants.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The comments by Robbie53024 and rlewellen certainly are quite reasonable. All these comments point to the brilliance that Ayn Rand showed in establishing a gold equivalency for all actions. I am a big enough man to realize that my suggestions are well, suggestions.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I am in agreement regarding one share, one vote, as per my comment a little further below. Regarding BONDHOLDERS vs. taxpayers, that is an interesting question, I would be in complete agreement with the bond holders option if this indeed were a Galtish world. As long as we are still burdened with a Federal Reserve and federal government that can print a fiat currency that is not tied to something objective, the bond holders option will not work. I am still caught a la Dagny between GG and America until GG is a real place.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    1) You don't think that is already happening?
    2) Since it would require a 2/3 vote of both the house and senate to override, it would protect against singular action by one or a small group of legislators.
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