What page of AS are we on right now?

Posted by $ jbrenner 8 years, 9 months ago to The Gulch: General
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Every so often I like to assess where I am at with respect to my career and personal goals. It is time for that for me with respect to the Gulch.

With the Seattle businessman named Price insisting we "need" to provide all employees with salaries of at least $70 K, we definitely are at least p. 321 with the Starnes heirs to the Twentiech Century Motor Company.

This thread is a variant of
Atlas Shrugged - Now Non-Fiction.
Please cite incidents in real life and in AS to tell us where we are at. I am learning with each year just how tough it must have been for the producers. I am not sure I have enough patience.


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  • Posted by khalling 8 years, 9 months ago
    I am not currently re-reading AS, though I have many times. I last pulled up Cheryl's comments to JT, because this Gulch has been infiltrated by those not taking the Oath. sigh. here it is (with db's commentary about 3 years ago): ’he didn’t invent smelting and chemistry and air compression. He couldn’t have invented HIS metal but for thousands and thousands of other people. HIS Metal! Why does he think it’s his? Why does he think it’s his invention? Everybody uses the work of everybody else. Nobody ever invents anything.’ (Jim Taggart) She (Jim Taggart’s Wife) said, puzzled, ‘But the iron ore and all those other things were there all the time. Why didn’t anybody else make that Metal, but Mr. Rearden did?’”
    Rand anticipates Open Source socialists. This idea that no one invents anything is the standard argument of collectivists, but it does not stand up to scrutiny. Why has inventing been concentrated in the last two centuries in relatively small populations of the U.S. and western countries?
    :
    but I often re-read the Money Speech:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkivn...
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    • Posted by $ 8 years, 9 months ago
      Solid state phase equilibria and time-temperature-transformation diagrams have advanced some since Rearden's time, but invention of Rearden Metal still eludes us. I could tell you what elements from the periodic table would have to be in it, but I definitely don't know what ratios (although I think I could narrow that down pretty quickly to a handful of candidates) and definitely don't know the series of conditions necessary for Rearden Metal manufacturing. I would say it would take a research group of four or five about ten years to develop Rearden Metal.

      Invention succeeds in countries where intellectual property is not only valued, but protected.
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    • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 9 months ago
      I am not a socialist, but do participate in several Open Source projects including Mozilla. And I even partly agree with Jim Taggart -- all inventions are derived from earlier ones. Which is not a good argument against rewarding invention, but is a good argument for not having laws that "lock down" somebody's invention for decades and prevent it being built upon by competitors. This especially goes for software, where even something as complicated as a new version of Windows will be obsolete and taken off the market in 5-10 years (but under current law cannot be taken and improved upon by competing writers for 90 years -- plus likely future extensions!)

      As far as "what page are we on?" I think reality has noticeably diverged from Rand's prediction, if you regard AS as a prediction. In particular, big companies with government connections have more control than even the government itself, to the point where we're living in a cyberpunk novel, maybe John Shirley's Eclipse.
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    • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 8 years, 9 months ago
      Although I know some advocate open source, I do not, nor have I seen anyone do so on this site.

      We are interested in protecting not only the product of the software inventor but the ability of the inventor to use his own creativity to invent new products.

      (ed. I just realized that although open source has not been advocated in the discussions on copyright vs patent some people have advocated Linux which is open source)
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      • Posted by ProfChuck 8 years, 9 months ago
        People that publish their work on open source do so voluntarily. If that is their choice then I have no problem with it. It is when the government compels an inventor to share his work that it becomes theft. Many of the products that are on open source stimulate the production of marketable products so I view it as a form of investment.
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      • Posted by $ 8 years, 9 months ago
        I have seen people advocate open source on this web site. I do not advocate open source, but I am glad to take developments that have been developed as "open source" and incorporate them into my propietary designs so that I can focus on what I can make that is truly MINE.
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        • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 8 years, 9 months ago
          Since much of it is under the GNU license you can't use it commercially without opening up your product. So I generally avoid them.

          I understand there is a large open source movement but I think developers should be able to make a living off of their work, not work at McDonald's and write software in their free time.
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      • Posted by Ibecame 8 years, 9 months ago
        You might take that one step further. Both Apple OSX and Windows are based on Unix, which is open source. Of course that was the choice of those that wrote the code and improved it over the years.
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        • Posted by $ 8 years, 9 months ago
          Ahh, Unix. That is an operating system I was glad to forget. I was in the last year of computing with punch cards as a freshman in college. A friend of mine told me that the best way to learn Unix was by learning a Dungeons and Dragons' variant called Nethack. Whether he was right or not, I got addicted to the game, and had to get rid of that before long.
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          • Posted by Ibecame 8 years, 9 months ago
            OMG, I remember punch cards and punch tape. I went to school with the guy that came up with the "Dungeons & Dragons" video game along with the "Black Jack" video game. Once he got past the legal war over his owning it, he became wonderfully "filthy rich". What happened with Unix, was Steve Jobs. When he got the boot from Apple he started a company called Next. They were marketing a new operating based on Unix, but it was greatly improved (yes, it was and I did quite a bit of work with it). When Steve went back to Apple this was even more improved and became OSX. This was putting Windows literally on its ear at the time and with Bill Gates going through several other embarrassments at the time like the "Blue Screen of Death" and the "Pie in the Face", Microsoft decided they either had to get in the Unix line, or the unemployment line. The rest as they say is history. Mac or Microsoft fan (lets not forget Linux), you are actually running on Unix.
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  • Posted by richrobinson 8 years, 9 months ago
    Economically it's hard to tell because I don't trust the numbers the Gov. puts out. If things in China are worse than is being reported then we are close to where we have to write the sequel.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 9 months ago
    The fact that we're at any page at all along A.S. should be the focus. I don't think Rand wrote the book hoping that she was the new Nostradamus. It was a warning, a red light blinking in an open field, and a great neon sign shouting Beware!
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  • Posted by jimslag 8 years, 9 months ago
    I believe in Open Source as long as it is voluntary. It is when it is compelled by force, whether by government or another individual that it is wrong. We are approaching it when the Patent Office denies or rescinds patents or trademarks, like the Washington football teams trademark. The good of the government is gone and the bad is rapidly growing with all the EPA rules and IRS scandals, etc. It is definitely time for me to take "My American Ideal" and find my Gulch. Online, you guys are tops and your ideas and values are stupendous. In the real world, not sure. There are plenty of places that are hands off but still have stupid rules and laws that you have to follow. There are other places that you would not consider due to authoritarian rulers or excessive regulations. I have my personal choices and will be making the move soon. Not soon enough, but I have to take care of things here in the US before I go.
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 8 years, 9 months ago
    Interesting timing with this thread, for me.

    For both my work and my own personal interest I keep up with current events. This weekend I was thinking that if Atlas Shrugged is as accurate as it appears we are pretty much doomed as a nation. In our own lives, my family is scaling back, tightening the reins on our assets, studying other places to live - having discussions with a growing group of like-minded families. There is certainly a quickening now, as I thought there might be in this leader's second term. Here on the left coast there is a very fervent effort to trample basic rights. We're seeing a simultaneous effort in DC...in some sort of "pincher movement", I think. Most citizens are happy just being able to play on their cell phones and run up their credit cards. Perhaps this decline will just blow over soon. But, I don't think it will.
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    • Posted by term2 8 years, 9 months ago
      You are right on. Independently, my friends and I are doing the same things. Scaling back on things we really dont need, learning more about self sufficiency things like hydroponics. I say the USA decline will go on for several decades. Look at Venezuela and how long its just muddling along getting slowly worse and worse. ALONGSIDE NIGHT is a good primer for what we need to be doing. Independent of the US dollar as much as possible, and trading only with like minded people and staying under the government radar.
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    • Posted by $ 8 years, 9 months ago
      The decline will not blow over soon. Too many looters in DC are empowered by such a decline.
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      • Posted by XenokRoy 8 years, 9 months ago
        read "the Death of Money" if you want to see how they will get a nice big extension on there looter system. If the author is right when he proposes as likely to happen will start the cycle over on a global system, buying them likely another 100 years of looting (the 100 years is my conclusion rather than the authors).
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        • Posted by $ Abaco 8 years, 9 months ago
          It's shocking when I look at the purchasing power my folks' generation had compared to my generation. Man...we're really sliding down the hill...
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          • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 8 years, 9 months ago
            Recently, on "Throw Back Thursday", Buzz Aldrin tweeted his 1969 travel expense form that included travel by government space ship to the moon and back. It made a bit of an internet splash.

            We were looking at it in the office and marveling over the low expenses. He did have $33 in reimbursable expenses, at .07 a mile, $1 a day in per diem etc. Money was worth a lot more in 1969.
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            • Posted by XenokRoy 8 years, 9 months ago
              True but wages were also a lot less as well. In the late seventies I felt really good about making $30k in a business (roofing) I ran during the summers in High School. My dad was a general contractor or I would not have been able to do it. At the time 30k was more than most the people who worked for my dad made. I think average for a year was something like 22k.

              Putting together a very high end, non professional car for some drag racing in one of the local towns was what the money went to. That care cost 28k when all was said and done, the same kind of car today would be close to 100k. The car has tripled and the wages have doubled. That is the result over time of the Keynesian economics model every central bank in the world follows today. Inflation of wages at about 2/3 the rate of inflation of goods. Add in a graduated tax schedule and you have a built in tax increase.

              No wonder governments love it so much
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  • Posted by dwlievert 8 years, 9 months ago
    I would simply add to this thread that the ultimate manifestation of "open source," is for one's mind to be "opened" for the "source" of its contents.

    OK if freely done so by its owner; evil if done so against its owner's wishes: unspeakably evil if prescribed as "virtue."
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  • Posted by term2 8 years, 9 months ago
    AS really ended with the economy collapsing, but it didnt really deal with where we go from there. THATS what should be in future AS movies or series. We can see from Venezuela where things are headed for the USA. We should be studying that country and comparing it with AS actually. Then watch and see how it recovers (or doesnt recover).
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 8 years, 9 months ago
    Tata Steel the largest Steel producer in Europe and India with the newest plants on line is producing continous cast rail of different configurations is only has added minor elements to the steel. It is the heattreatment and surface wash of the rail to enhance the capabilities of the metal. Most of US made steel goes to industry, refineries, construction and building industries. The US imports most of rail. So, there is very little change on how rail is made. It is far from Rearden Steel.
    I believe in a few years polymers with graphene/carbon nano-tubes will revolutionize the transportation and material handling industies so long BHO doesn't due damage to the oil industry through the EPA.
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  • Posted by Ibecame 8 years, 9 months ago
    The book of course is fiction (not a criticism, just a statement of fact). In the book the Rail system was the cornerstone of mans technological rise because of all of the progress that came out the technology we call transportation. The Rail system made it possible to move food from Wisconsin to LA, Coal to California, the list is endless, but almost as important was the movement of people that mixed ideas together to create the future we now live in. That era for the moment is gone, most transportation is now by plane. At the time it was the "hinge-pin" of civilization.

    Today the "hinge-pin" is Electricity. Imagine what would happen if the power grid went down? Almost everything will come to a stop. Every form of transportation we have is dependent on the power grid. That is the Achilles Heel of Civilization today. If you want to know where we are at in the book, that is where to look.
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    • Posted by $ 8 years, 9 months ago
      Electricity is indeed the linchpin in today's society, but rail transportation still is the cheapest way to ship large quantities across land. If one were to put a crimp in electricity by making coal-fired power plants uneconomical by an environmentalist ruling via executive fiat, one could put a serious damper in the US economy. Wait a second ... Didn't Obama deliver on that campaign promise this week?! In a way, that was coal's version of forcing Ellis Wyatt to put his torch on fire.
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  • Posted by XenokRoy 8 years, 9 months ago
    I ran a business for several years, and as I became more successful with it, the state kept coming back and taking another piece. The point at which I quit the business was when the state thought they should have me inventory all my business assets annually to apply a tax to all my assets.

    It is no wonder that businesses lease everything from buildings to computers. Remove the assets and reduce the taxation. I wanted a business I owned, from the pencils to the buildings to every asset we had and used. That is just not practice in many industries with the taxation being what it is.

    I simply decided to work for others running a segment of there business. It was required for my sanity because if I did not separate myself from dealing with the government to some extent I may have pulled a Cheryl (spelling) and ran off the proverbial pier.

    A few specifics I can think of, the Boeing case that settled about a year ago where the feds attempted to stop Boeing from building a new plan in a different location (non-union state) in order to keep the jobs it would create in the union. The suite was eventually dropped but it delayed construction for about 7 years. Creating a huge backlog for dream-liner 777 planes and preventing a 20,000 job plant from building during the recession. Not quite forcing companies to stay in New York and not move to Colorado but a definite attempt to pull off the same.
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    • Posted by $ 8 years, 9 months ago
      That is an excellent point. In a way your company became like when Rearden was forced to split his company into a number of companies, owned by Paul Larkin et al.

      The Boeing case was mentioned by someone else recently. +1
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  • Posted by Flootus5 8 years, 9 months ago
    I like the whole concept that AS is now non-fiction. I'm just waiting for the lights to go out. Prepared? Sorta, but not really. I had hoped to be much further along by now. But Obubbleheads attack on coal may just be the straw on that one. Look at what Sally Jewell and the "Wild Earth Guardians" are doing to northwest Colorado and the Colowyo coal mine right now. Shut 'er down. Freeze in the dark while starving.

    For what she accomplished with that novel, written at that time she was rationally prophetic. The basics are all there. But some of the flavor or the face of the manifestations she could not have nailed down that close. The rise of the environmental movement was yet to take full shape, with all of its ways and means of tentacleizing collectivism into the nations fabric.

    And perhaps the degree of international collectivizing globalization entanglement has progressed to a degree that she would just shake her head over.

    But where she nailed it was in the principle of it all. Looters, moochers, and politicians, indeed.
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