Early Warning Signs of Global Fiscal Problems?

Posted by $ blarman 10 years, 3 months ago to Economics
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Apologies for all the ads - focus on the content right down the middle of the article. These are 20 warning signs throughout the world of economic bellweathers - and few even include the US!

Your thoughts: is the world about to face its first global depression?
SOURCE URL: http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/20-early-warning-signs-that-we-are-approaching-a-global-economic-meltdown


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  • Posted by straightlinelogic 10 years, 3 months ago
    Global depression is the smart money bet. It will be blamed on all sorts of things, but it will boil down to growth rates in total debt that have exceeded global economic growth rates for many years. The whole point of "accepted" monetary and fiscal policies for the past 100 years is to allow people to consume more than they produce, borrowing against the future. Fiat money, fractional reserve banking, derivatives, and government debt and guarantees of private debt have fueled the greatest world wide debt bubble in history. I've talked about it frequently on my website, straightlinelogic.com, and posted an article that I shared today with the Gulch on the global kleptocracy and economic meltdown, "An Offer They Can't Refuse." I traded debt and derivatives for years, and fortunately, am now out of that racket.
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    • Posted by dbhalling 10 years, 3 months ago
      Straight, what is your take on China?
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      • Posted by straightlinelogic 10 years, 3 months ago
        I mentioned it in my recent piece on straightlinelogic. State directed credit systems usually come to tears, and we may be close in China. What is also interesting is that the new regime appears to be stepping up its repression of the citizenry. That may be an early warning sign that they expect trouble. Growth is slowing and financial stress is increasing. Definitely a good idea to keep an eye on China. The website zerohedge has had some excellent pieces on China, talking about things the MSM don't, except for occasional tangential references from the WSJ. I'll post the next good ZH piece on China I see to the Gulch.
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  • Posted by bassboat 10 years, 3 months ago
    The laws of economics can't be repealed. $85 billion a month for months on end, Japan at $75 billion a month with 38% of our population is even worse. Need I mention Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland from the eurozone? France with 75% tax rates with Britain not far behind? You will see a continuing line of failures by governments using socialism intend of capitalism. Man's nature is two fold, one good, one bad. If offered something for nothing he will take it ech time as that is in his best interest. Long term bad. If he is exposed to capitalism he will strive to do better. Long term good. After all, what system has created wealth, communism and socialism which are failures at every opportunity or capitalism? It's really an easy easy answer for the Gulch residents but not for our ill educated electorate. They fall prey to the politician promising something for nothing. The producers should go on strike.
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  • Posted by mminnick 10 years, 3 months ago
    These are not earlier warning signs, these are signs that the global economy is in trouble. Ne news on Friday was even worse, Dow down by 316 and down by 41 today. Add the Thursday loose and you get 527+ points down in three days. Granted not a recod drop, but a sharp drop none the less.
    Hang on, its going to be a bumpy ride.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 10 years, 3 months ago
    The effects of the economic global earthquake hasn't quite hit us as yet, so grab onto something stable and get under something safe, it'll be here soon enough. In WW2 when the big bombardments started booming away, soldiers tended to lose their lunch and their bowels. So folks, shut your mouth and clench your buttocks we may not be able to avoid the big boom. (The GIs actually said, "Keep a tight a-hole").
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  • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years, 3 months ago
    When you figure out how to get a majority of the people to understand what you are saying and you get a quarter of those people to want to do something to avoid this coming mess (and it IS coming), I'll jump in the boat with you.

    I absolutely know you are right. This is going to happen. The question is what to do about it?

    The Story of Atlas Shrugged was about a time such as we see these evolving into under a totalitarian government. Yes. This very well may be the doorway we see at the end of the garden path we are strolling down. The door is two, perhaps three steps away - those days and those men are upon us - like Atlas, all WE can do is to shrug.
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  • Posted by mminnick 10 years, 3 months ago
    Adding to my comment of the 27th .. Down 180+ today (29 Jan 2014). This after being up about 90 on 28 Jan. so two day net loss of 90 or so. Makes the drop over 600 points.
    As I said, it's going to be a bumpy ride.
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  • Posted by jetgraphics 10 years, 3 months ago
    The world has faced many economic driven collapses - partly due to usury, the abomination (and mathematically unsustainable in a finite money token system). But the problem with money madness also stifles any empire, in time. Because the fixed and finite amount of money can never keep in proportion with the economic growth potential from growing population, whose output is multiplied by tools and technology. It's like trying to play "Monopoly" when the bank runs out of money. The game breaks down when you can't play by the rules.
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  • -2
    Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 3 months ago
    My unreliable crystal ball says continued growth. We have several years of US GDP growth and stock market growing above average, both real and nominal.
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    • Posted by $ 10 years, 3 months ago
      Would be curious to see what real growth you are referring to, as all the economists I have read are pointing to the economy and comparing price-to-earnings ratios of stocks and declaring them as overvalued. GDP growth is sluggish - even last year barely cleared 1%. That's below average - not above. Even average growth is >2% and great growth is 3%+.

      The other problem is the growing debt and its drag on tax funds. What we take for granted right now is that the only reason we can afford the debt we already have is absurdly low interest rates and the games the Fed is playing. If interest rates rise a few points, suddenly our obligations to debt service start crowding out other government services. This is a snowball with only one destination.

      I wouldn't put any money in the stock market except as short sales or calls. The reason so much money is going there is because bond rates don't even cover inflation and the housing market is still on eggshells - most mortgage holders are still holding large quantities of toxic mortgages. They just can't dump them all on the market at the same time without it collapsing. Investors have no place to put their money, because they can't reinvest in their businesses due to the uncertainties involved with the ACA.

      And have you seen the estimated crop reports for this year? Many areas of the nation - including California - are facing serious water shortfalls, meaning shorter growing seasons and less fruit.

      Do I know what can be done about it? Sure, but none of it would pass Congress or the President right now.

      My advice: buckle up - it's going to be a bumpy ride. And when the US falters, the whole world is going to feel the effects.
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 3 months ago
      Demographics and fiscal policy would seem to contradict such a prediction.
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      • Posted by $ 10 years, 3 months ago
        In what way? Please explain your thoughts.
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        • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 3 months ago
          Baby boom is aging - history shows that peak consumption occurs around age 46, and BB'ers are well past that. Since the economy is driven about 2/3 by consumer spending, don't expect much growth until the "echo boom" which are the children of the BB's which won't reach that age for another 10 yrs.
          Fiscal policy - too much borrowing which will need to be repaid. When it is, it will suck up most expenditures.
          I could also have included monetary policy, which is going to cause rampant inflation.
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      • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years, 3 months ago
        G'morning Robbie, I'm afraid you need to remember which "choir" he sings in. He may need a user name change. May I suggest "Larson"?
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        • Posted by khalling 10 years, 3 months ago
          star, cg is a libertarian. He also lives in an area of the country that is doing well economically. It is a state capital and home to a major university with lots of government dollars flowing through. It boasts lower than national avg on unemployment and 9th in the nation for high tech jobs. Madison is doing well comparatively.
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          • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years, 3 months ago
            there are libertarians and there are libertarians. i would say that his answers are consistent with a liberal point of view. What he chooses to label himself as, I don't care.

            you can call yourself a apple but if you are yellow colored, sour to the taste and stringy, I'd say that you might be a lemon. Choosing to call yourself a apple will not change your character.
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            • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 3 months ago
              I tend to agree with you. There are various types of libertarians, but CG tends to be long on social libertarianism and shorter on fiscal issues.
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              • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years, 3 months ago
                Yes. I tend to be conservative on social issues AND fiscal issues. As such, I'm a conservative.
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                • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 3 months ago
                  Not sure what you consider conservative. The traditional meaning is that you don't look for any change. While libertarian means that you are in favor of liberty.
                  Traditional conservatives support liberty for economic issues, but limitations on social issues.
                  Traditional liberals support liberty for social issues and limitations on economic issues.
                  True libertarians believe in liberty for both social as well as economic issues.
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                  • Posted by $ 10 years, 3 months ago
                    I would perhaps elaborate on your definitions just slightly.

                    Liberals believe in the "now": policies that feel good at the moment regardless of their long-term ramifications. Liberals embrace choices emphasizing the moment or about how they can gain control over others. Liberals are apt to flit from fad to fad.

                    Conservatives emphasize policies that are ultra-long term - many of them faith-based - based on traditional values. Conservatives eschew principles that sacrifice long-term gains for short-term ones. Conservatives avoid fads to focus on principle.

                    Libertarians are kind of a mix of the two. Their policies are predominantly founded based on logic, but that logic is constrained to personal experience, thus they tend to embrace conservative fiscal policies and liberal social policies. This is why they don't get along well politically with either of the two major parties. (Disclaimer: Most Republicans are no longer conservative and have drifted very Libertarian, while Democrats have drifted far Left.)

                    If you want to talk about it in terms of freedom, Liberals believe you make your own freedom, Libertarians prioritize the freedom of the mind, and Conservatives focus on the freedom of the soul.
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            • Posted by khalling 10 years, 3 months ago
              there are many issues you and cg would agree about. think about it like this-there are some issues you and I will disagree on. but we both came to this site looking for like minds.
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          • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 3 months ago
            Madison?
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            • Posted by khalling 10 years, 3 months ago
              yes WI
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              • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 3 months ago
                Yikes! That's too close for comfort. But explains a lot.
                Yes, I can confirm that the Mad-town Wisconsin is doing quite nicely. Mostly on the backs of the rest of the state - either government, lobbyists, or the university. Every time I go there to visit my daughters, the restaurants are packed. No recession there.
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                • Posted by iroseland 10 years, 3 months ago
                  Madison is a great example. The state is pouring tax dollars into UW-Madison. Of course, if you are a resident of Wisconsin it is now nearly impossible to get admitted to Madison. The state knows it will make more money on out of state tuition there.. All of this is making Madison a very expensive place to live. Which makes it kind of hilarious that they went out of there way to build low income subsidized housing, that is now attracting gang members up from Chicago who need to get away for a bit.
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                  • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 3 months ago
                    We are getting more big-city problems, but part of that is we're growing.
                    Madison is still not expensive compared to major metro areas.
                    We did inclusionary zoning (IZ) for a few years with mixed results. We're put nice low-income housing just a few blocks walk from where I live in Hill Farms. From what I've seen it seems to be working.
                    Madison is a pretty amazing place to live. My wife and I both spent time away and before we met chose to live within a couple miles of where we lived as kids.
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                • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 3 months ago
                  The economy is going gangbusters here, and part of it is money from the rest of the state, which no one likes to admit. It would be nice if they could spread out geographically the school and gov't offices more.

                  The rest of the state feels like dairy farms and paper mills are paying for biotech research. That's partly true, but there's more money today in technology. It's not like if gov't stopped funding the UW of a sudden paper mills and mining would be amazing generators of wealth.

                  I agree that Dane County, and maybe the so-called Madison region, should pay more of its own way. Dairy farms can pay their own way too.

                  It would be nice, but obviously impossible, if Madison could license the world Madison to businesses in Middleton, Verona, Fitchburg, Monona, McFarlands, and Waunakee that say they're in Madison. :)

                  I have seen from personal experience people who would work two jobs to stay above the poverty line get < 40hr/wk State jobs that provide a middle-class lifestyle. It makes it an amazing place to live, but that part is unfair to the rest of the state.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 3 months ago
      Why do you downvoters reject humble optimism? You'rerejecting the view of many people out here taking a chance and driving the economy.
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      • Posted by $ 10 years, 3 months ago
        I would offer that we aren't rejecting optimism, we just view the preponderance of evidence and say that it is far more likely than not that things continue to deteriorate. The past five years have shown us that Obama and the Democrats are so power-drunk that they ignore the results right in front of their eyes. And the Republican leadership has no backbone and therefore defer to the Democrats and wind up supporting bad policy.

        No one can deny that the economic signs (we have $100 TRILLION in outstanding liabilities and added $600+ billion just this year - and Obamacare hasn't even gotten going yet!) point to a dangerous and total collapse of the economic system of the US without big structural changes, and that this will likely lead to catastrophic consequences around the globe. We remain optimistic in the ideals of America - free trade, etc. - but we are extremely pessimistic that those in control of the ship right now will make the necessary course corrections because they show no inclination to even reasonably consider the matter.

        I would love to be optimistic about the fate of our nation, but I can not be optimistic about that with our current leadership. And if we survive the next three years without a major fiscal collapse AND new leadership takes over, we'll see then if the situation has changed.
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 3 months ago
          Wow. You and I just see things so differently. All human institutions have their foibles, and the Democrats and Republicans as institutions are much worse than ave. They drive me nuts. If they were in charge of the economy, we'd be in big trouble. Fortunately, they're not. I coordinated a high school level antenna design competition two weekends ago. Those people ARE in charge of the economy. They're exciting about creating things that solve problems and are marketable.

          I categorically deny the debt and deficit point to a total collapse of the economic system. Unless GDP keeps rising and politicians make tough decisions, we may see inflation. But we're no where near collapse. The engine is all those people out here with good ideas and knowledge and enthusiasm to serve other people by producing goods/services.

          "I would love to be optimistic about the fate of our nation, but I can not be optimistic about that with our current leadership"
          This is my biggest concern about the US. I'm NOT concerned about fiscal collapse in the next few years. I am very concerned that our system more-and-more depends on having good leadership. We do need good leaders, but the system must be robust enough not to depend on good people b/c every once in a while you get bad leadership. I'm deeply concerned about this on the scale of decades.

          If I had to pick someone to rule by exec decree with power to target Americans to kill, I might pick President Obama, BUT I in no way want to pick any person to have that power. The president isn't even empowered to declare war. The Constitution wasn't intended for the gov't to run a huge social safety net, domestic "anti-terror", "anti-drug" police state, or a vast empire. I really want to see that rolled back. democratic rule is fragile. We can become less democratic over decades and hardly notice it. I'm optimistic even about these problems; the short-term economic collapse fear isn't even on my radar.

          We both hope I'm right about that and you're wrong. We'll know in three years.

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          • Posted by $ 10 years, 2 months ago
            I support and applaud the common entrepreneur (I'm a ham, too, BTW - would love to see pics of the competition), but you also must agree that the conditions for business are created and determined by the laws and government - not by the entrepreneurs (except in the case of a black market). Government has a TREMENDOUS ability to control the market parameters, as in addition to levying taxes, they also set minimum wages, define unemployment benefits, control licensing of professionals such as doctors and accountants, control vehicle licensing, and perhaps most importantly, they control the flow of energy. While I wish there were more freedom in the market, I believe you vastly underestimate the true amount of control the government can and does exert on all aspects of business. According to economists Nicole V. Crain and W. Mark Crain, federal regulations cost businesses and consumers $1.75 trillion or approximately 12% of annual GDP! And that was in 2009!

            What worries me even more, however, is the level of debt compared to GDP. With current interest rates around a paltry 1%, we are ONLY paying &gt;$400 BILLION in debt service annually. What happens WHEN the interest rates rise? Where do we get the extra money to pay for this when we are ALSO running a $600 BILLION deficit? And that's only half as bad as the prior four deficits which added an average of $1.3 TRILLION to the deficit per year? And there is no sign that this is going to let up.

            What is easy to overlook is that the interest rates also mean loads of cheap money for business right now. They will be in the same boat as our government when interest rates rise.

            What will cause them to rise? The only reason they are as low as they are is because of - government control! The Fed's quantitative easing policies are keeping them artificially low in order to finance the debt, but even the Fed has agreed that this policy can not continue indefinitely. As they draw QE down, interest rates will go back up as the "easy money" dries up.

            I wish things were not so dire. I haven't even touched on the housing market full of toxic mortgages or the overinflated stock prices or the personal debt loads of the common American. But the prevalence of all these and their continued neglect (and even furtherance in many cases) greatly concerns me. Our ship is being guided by a blind helmsman who is busy distributing liquor to the oarsmen while trying to persuade the passengers to stay in their cabins and not look out the portholes at the raging seas. And we can't really abandon ship.
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