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Yes, Conservatives, Islam Is a Religion

Posted by Zenphamy 8 years, 10 months ago to Philosophy
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I've noticed on the site lately, more and more comments by our more conservative and religious members speaking about the evil of Islam. I've wanted to reply to many of those commenters and posters about the topic of this article, and after reading this article, I'm glad I waited. I couldn't have said it any better. It's not Islam that's the problem--it's religion.



"If Westerners want to win the cultural war against Islam, we must accurately identify Islam for what it is. It’s a religion.

Why does it matter whether we call this religion a religion? It matters (among other reasons) because recognizing Islam as a religion is the first step in dealing with the problem of jihad—a problem that is much broader than the tenets of Islam calling for the submission or murder of infidels. As I show in “Islamic Jihad and Western Faith,” the fundamental problem is not the specific tenets of Islam, but the idea that faith is a means of knowledge.

'If people can know by means of faith that God exists, what He wills to be true, that His will is the moral law, and what He commands people to do, then they can know literally anything to be true. If a person’s “spiritual sense” tells him that God says he should love his neighbor, then he knows he should love his neighbor. If it tells him that God says he should love his enemies, then he knows he should love them. If it tells him that God says he should turn the other cheek if someone strikes him, then he knows what to do when that happens. If it tells him that God says to kill his son, then he knows he must do so. If it later tells him that God says not to kill his son, then he knows he should not. If it tells him that God says he should convert or kill unbelievers, then he knows he should convert or kill unbelievers. If it tells him that God says the Koran is the word of God and that if he fails to believe and obey every word of it he will burn in hell, then he knows that to be true. . . .

Either faith is a means of knowledge, or it is not. If it is a means of knowledge, then it is a means of knowledge. If faith is a means of divining truth, then whatever anyone divines by means of faith is by that fact true. If faith is a means of knowledge, then the tenets of Islam—which are “known” by means of faith—are true, in which case Muslims should convert or kill infidels. By what standard can an advocate of faith say otherwise? . . .

To lend credence to the notion that faith is a means of knowledge is to support and encourage Islamic regimes and jihadist groups at the most fundamental level possible: the epistemological level. It is to say to them, in effect: “Whatever our disagreements, your method of arriving at truth and knowledge is correct.” Well, if their method is correct, how can the content they “know” by means of it be incorrect?'

If Westerners want to win the cultural war against Islam, we must be willing to recognize—and to openly acknowledge—the fundamental and relevant truths of the matter. Those truths include the fact that Islam is a religion, and the fact that faith is not a means of knowledge.

Conservatives are uncomfortable with these facts because they are religious themselves, and they want religion and faith to be good things. But discomfort with facts doesn’t alter them. And wanting things to be good doesn’t make them so.

The solution to discomfort arising from the fact that Islam is a religion is not to pretend that Islam is not a religion, but to recognize and accept the fact that religion as such is inherently irrational and potentially murderous because it posits a non-rational means of knowledge."



Let's see what others think of this approach to solving the problems of conflicts with ISLAM.

Is Islam any more wrong in that origin of knowledge, than Christianity or Judaism or any other source of supernatural knowledge?


All Comments


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  • Posted by 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Good quote. I like Bertrand Russell's cosmic tea pot: “If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.”
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  • Posted by UncommonSense 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Islam is NOT a variant of Christianity. No way in HELL. Not even close at all. Mohammed took what dim understanding he had about Christianity and turned every single story about all the people (Cain and Able, Noah, Abraham, Moses, etc) and twisted the history so that he could be seen as in the same company as they were & thus implying to his forced followers that he too, is among the prophets.

    Here are some shining examples of how islam and Christianity having nothing in common:

    In the Old Testament ~ the Garden of Eden is on earth.

    Mohammed says that is a lie and it was in heaven.

    In the Old Testament, Cain killed Able because of Cain's jealousy over his perceived view that God had a higher preference for Able.

    Mohammed said the reason why Cain killed Able was because Cain was jealous of Able's wife, who was in fact Able's sister. (Yes, incest is perfectly allowed in islam)

    In the Old Testament, God instructed Noah to build an Ark so as to rescue animals from both sexes (hey, why both sexes and not just males? Uh, because homosexuality ISN'T sustainable....just sayin') because God was going to destroy the earth and rid the sinful nature that humanity had become lost to.

    Mohammed said Noah cursed the people who had made fun of him because Noah was a prophet and because of that, the people needed to submit to him. And when the people refused to acknowledge him as a prophet, allah sent forth a flood to punish all who denied Noah the prophet status.

    In the New Testament, Jesus died on the cross for EVERYONE's sin's. On the 3rd day, He arose from the dead and was seen by multiple people.

    Mohammed said Jesus didn't die, but in fact had someone else go his place.

    Every single Commandment that God gave the Jewish people was directly broken by Mohammed. How many did Jesus break?

    Perhaps the most disgusting thing Mohammed ever did was when he was caught on top of his dead aunt in the grave. And when his followers asked him what he doing, he replied that he had a revelation and that he had to forgive her of her sins and the only way he could do that was by sexual contact.

    You really expect me to believe your statement that islam is a variance of Christianity? The mormon thing as well: You need to read (KJV only) Revelations Chapter 22, verses 18 and 19. Joe Smith clearly didn't heed the warnings. And nope, I am not a god, and nor will I ever become one and become in charge of my own damn planet.

    I've read more than enough of islam since 1996 to be absolutely beyond disgusted with it. I hate getting involved in discussions about Christianity on a forum that supports AR, but it would be wrong for me to stay quiet when I read your first line KNOWING you are quite wrong.

    Want to discuss this in more detail? A debate on mormonism perhaps and how it closely follows the masons far more than Christianity? No problem, but not in this forum.

    I do however, completely agree with your statement about if we declared war on the Unitarians and Mormons they would be considered terrorists. And that why 'the war on terrorism', ~ a tactic of war, is so incredibly stupid and a waste of life, (American lives) and our $$.

    For the Globalists, environmentalism is their religion.
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  • Posted by 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    But isn't religion based on belief that faith in the supernatural, will or already has provided all the answers?

    I'm currently reading a book, 'Stephen Hawking Smoked My Socks' by Hilton Radcliffe that addresses the difficulties in today's science that have resulted from 'belief systems' in the performance of science, and how extremely difficult it is for any human to recognize his own beliefs and separate them from his interpretation and/or application of facts. I highly recommend Radcliffe's writing to any Objectivist.
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  • Posted by 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    There are approx. 1 billion humans expressing that faith, most in developing and advanced societies. Although I think they're as wrong as the militants/terrorists, they are the majority of the faith. Any belief system, without empirical evidence that proposes that it is the 'right' belief system, compared to any other belief system is as wrong or as right as any belief system based on 'faith'. How can it be otherwise?
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  • Posted by 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The fundamental 'goodness' of my life, or of all life? Where do you place the great murderers, the destroyers, the looters and moochers?
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  • Posted by 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yet looked at from the outside, if belief based on faith is credible, then each and all of those sects are correct.
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 8 years, 10 months ago
    Oh brother, Islam was formed 700 after Christianity and used landmarks and people from Judaism, Christianity, and other localized religions to add credibility to itself.The basis of this 'religion' was to unify the nomadic arabs in much the same way that Judiasm unified the Jews. Mohammed used that sentiment (his quran) to justify a wide range of his criminal activity in the guise of divine enlightenment. These crimes included: widespread theft, raiding an killing innocents, sacking cities, making and violating treaties, and subjugating and killing anyone who would not convert to islam. Islam was intially friendly to all monotheistic religions of the time. It wasn't until those other religions rejected islam that mohammed began wholesale terrorizing and murdering of innocents. In short, he drank his own kool-aid to the point that he believed it.

    Again, Objectivism is a life philosophy and serves no use once dead. Why does faith (I'm not being on religions) bother people here so much?
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Well stated, Islam is a belief structure, a social order blueprint and a form of governance. Whoever took your point obviously hasn't done their homework on islam. Sadly, islam is considered a religion.
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  • Posted by BlackBeaver 8 years, 10 months ago
    I must have missed something: just who is saying Islam is "not a religion"?
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  • Posted by Riftsrunner 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    In Islam, Jesus is the last prophet (before Mohammad) sent by god to lead the isrealites onto the true path of Islam. While he is called the Messiah and was giving a virgin birth by Mary, he is not divine (or God). According to Christianity, Jesus is divine and God (though Mormons push this to its breaking point due to their theology), thus Islam cannot be a christian variant. Accordingly, Jews and Christians are people of the book (Qu'ran or Koran) who have lost their way.

    As for ghosts, I need more evidence that is incontrovertible to make them a viable reality. Unfortunately, that evidence is sorely lacking.
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  • Posted by jimjamesjames 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Actually, I have no problem with those of faith (belief) as long as they leave me alone. I also have my "beliefs," that are called "necessary fictions." Necessary fictions are those thoughts that keep me semi-sane, such as, even at 72, I'm a stud, still have a full head of hair, can bench press a Kenworth, etc. But I keep my necessary fictions out of my decision making processes and do not impose them on anyone (or try to bench press a Kenworth).
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  • Posted by Maritimus 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I think that you can arrive rationally, as a rational ANIMAL, to having faith in the fundamental goodness of life.
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  • Posted by philosophercat 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    From the time 379? wen the Academy in Athens was ordered closed and all churches and books other than approved Catholic texts were burned until the discovery of the translations of Aristotle in the 12th century reason prevailed in catholic doctrine? Thou surely jest?
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  • Posted by woodlema 8 years, 10 months ago
    ISLAM is not a Religion.

    ISLAM is a Theocracy. A Theocracy combines both religion AND government. You cannot separate the two in any way since they both exist a a single thing.

    Do not kid yourselves, we are at war with a Government, not just a religion.
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  • Posted by philosophercat 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Allison is a marvel. I watched him answer questions form 15 or more at OCON and he spoke to each one looking them straight in the eyes until their question was answered and he stayed until everyone was answered. He is a leader and brilliant.
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  • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 10 months ago
    I see this view as misguided. While Islam is a religion, it is also a political movement, one that expressly refuses to be part of any multicultural society, and its danger to us comes from that refusal.
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  • Posted by jimjamesjames 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yep. "Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." Ambrose Bierce
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  • Posted by Flootus5 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I was raised in Massachusetts as a Unitarian and didn't buy any of it even as a youngster. And that was even before being influenced by Ayn Rand. I became the village atheist.

    Now, many decades later, my thinking has evolved to a point where I have defined a god concept that is way outside of the conventional major religion based concepts. To the point where I don't use the word god anymore, too much baggage. It works for me and is based upon the best empirical knowledge that I have arrived at holding that reality exists outside of one's consciousness.

    The link with this original post is great. I had not seen this site to date. I think that what it is stepping towards is that western conservatives need to examine their own basis of culture in religion as well. I think if that is accepted and the fundamentals and the history is examined, it will emerge true that Judeo-Christian traditions in the long slog of history have been a positive influence. The fundamental teachings of Christ do hold that the individual is foremost. And that is an important root for western culture as opposed to some others. That is what conservatives need to remember and bring forth as the true distinction between cultures/religions that do hold that value and those that are fundamentally collectivist in nature.

    Heavy stuff and I like it.
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  • Posted by philosophercat 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Look at the split of Orthodox Christianity from Western Christianity. Then Catholic from protestant as the future of Shite and Sunni for the next 600 years.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 8 years, 10 months ago
    The problem with Islam is that it's stuck in a societal time warp. Militant Catholicism of the Fourteenth Century, with its warrior popes seeking world domination by the church are the closest Western equivalent to today's Islam. Even Egypt's President observes that Islam needs a Reformation to become more tolerant of other religions and peoples. The correct observation is that Islam is not a modern religion, but it is one that insists on theocracy, replacing a secular government and enforcing the dominance of Islam over any other faith.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 10 months ago
    Throughout history, men seeking wealth and power have used religion as an excuse to commit the most heinous acts. In order to quell the extremes of religious fervor, moral codes were written into the various holy books. Because of these codes and other factors, people defend religions as being good regardless of how horrible their history. The only reason for the success of religion(s) is that it proclaims a final authority i:e: God. This allows men to give up the effort required of rational thought and lays it out to the "ultimate" arbiter.
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