Trump to Iowa evangelicals: I’m not sure I’ve ever asked God for forgiveness

Posted by $ AJAshinoff 8 years, 9 months ago to Culture
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Interesting exchange and pretty telling. I actually understand what he was saying about his faith. I also understand his statement on McCain. Trump could have fed them the standard line, instead he spoke the truth. While this doesn't guarantee my vote, his candor is pretty refreshing in the political arena.
SOURCE URL: http://hotair.com/archives/2015/07/20/trump-to-iowa-evangelicals-im-not-sure-ive-ever-asked-god-for-forgiveness/


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    Posted by Esceptico 8 years, 9 months ago
    I agree. Trump will not get my vote, but....If getting shot down and getting captured makes one a hero, then there are thousands of them. I thought a hero had to do something heroic. Silly me. In Arizona they renamed a peak in honor of the death of the first female soldier. Nobody seemed to care that she was the driver of a jeep, who did not follow her GPS, turned into the enemy instead of going home, and got everyone in the jeep killed. They treated her death as a heroic death. To me the death was stupidity, not heroic. With McCain, he is a survivor, not a hero. Besides, the Vietnam War is one of many we should never have been in. McCain has never held a real job, he has always worked for the government in one form or another.
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  • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 8 years, 9 months ago
    It made a lot of sense to me. He seemed to be honestly stumped at the beginning. He apparently doesn't think in terms of forgiveness, but in forging ahead and fixing his mistakes.

    That certainly explains why when blundering about McCain he has simply forged ahead not apologizing and emphasizing the terrible care the veterans are getting.

    And he has a point -- lots of people came back with serious damage, missing limbs, and are waiting months for VA care.
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    • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 9 months ago
      as a lucky veteran, I despise the lack of care for the troops, and
      despite voting last November, Nothing Has Happened
      to Help The Troops. . Dammit!!! -- j
      .
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    • Posted by ewv 8 years, 9 months ago
      He said nothing about McCain to apologize for. His weakness has been an inability to properly explain it beyond the initial dramatic 'emperor has no clothes'. In denying the claim that McCain is a "war hero" he did not denigrate his military record and did not attack veterans, contrary to the misrepresentations repeated even on Fox news. His emphasizing the plight of veterans is unrelated to dismissing McCain as a "war hero". He is right that they are the victim of government incompetence, including McCain's.
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  • Posted by dbhalling 8 years, 9 months ago
    The Christian Right is as much responsible for the state of the US today as the Socialist left. Republicans will never win another presidential election as long as they allow the CR to dictate their candidates and views. Perhaps this is a start.
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    • Posted by Technocracy 8 years, 9 months ago
      +1

      Leave the social issues at the door. America has far more critical problems to deal with.
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      • Posted by dbhalling 8 years, 9 months ago
        The biggest moral issue today is the failure to protect/respect Property Rights
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        • Posted by Technocracy 8 years, 9 months ago
          I consider that a straightforward legal issue. One that has been being subverted judicially and legislatively. True, that subversion is immoral in my eyes as well.

          For clarity on what I mean by social issues, perhaps cultural might be a better word. For example, who is offended by what... Social/cultural issue.

          PS can someone please point out to me exactly where the "right" to not be offended is enshrined in the Constitution??
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        • Posted by $ jbrenner 8 years, 9 months ago
          While respect for property rights is certainly a big issue, and probably your biggest issue given your area of expertise, it is not the biggest moral issue out there right now. The biggest moral issue out there right now is one of the following: a) the piling on of debt onto the backs of producers, children, and grandchildren (who either did not or could not consent to it), b) the ease with which looters are allowed to perpetrate fraud (e.g. global warming, baseline budgeting, entitlement accounting gimmickry that would make Charles Ponzi or Bernie Madoff gasp, etc.), or c) the media backlash that one gets when someone tells the facts as they are.
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          • Posted by ewv 8 years, 9 months ago
            The basic moral issue is rational egoism. Property rights are how it is implemented.
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            • Posted by $ jbrenner 8 years, 9 months ago
              OK. I hold my own life as my highest value, rationality as my highest virtue, and my own happiness as my primary objective. If one person or one corporation or even one news organization perpetrates a fraud, perhaps I can use the court system to look for some sort of justice based on the premise of property rights. However, when the political party in power and/or the vast majority of the media perpetrate such a fraud, I see no opportunity for redress under the concept of property rights. I am willing to be enlightened on this.
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          • Posted by dbhalling 8 years, 9 months ago
            J those all fall under property rights.
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            • Posted by $ jbrenner 8 years, 9 months ago
              Please educate me, db. Property rights generally consist of being able to use what one owns or produces, to earn income based on what owns or produces, to be able to transfer those rights/goods to others via sale, lease, royalties, etc.. The last class of property rights is the expectation that property rights will be enforced, or to preferably enforce them by oneself. I can see how the piling on of debt could be construed as falling under property rights, but I fail to as yet see how b) and c) fall under property rights. They couldn't even be prosecuted under the common "mail fraud" statutes.
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              • Posted by dbhalling 8 years, 9 months ago
                Okay

                b) global warming, baseline budgeting, entitlement accounting gimmickry that would make Charles Ponzi or Bernie Madoff gasp, etc

                Except for global warming these all property rights issues. 1st if you own yourself and that which you produce almost all federal spending evaporates. Entitlements are antithetical to property rights.

                c) the media backlash that one gets when someone tells the facts as they are.

                The media is a product of the idea that the airwaves are owned by the public. But even more fundamentally, most of the media backlash is based on the idea that you are a slave - property rights start with you owning yourself. This puls reason also kills global warming.
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                • Posted by $ jbrenner 8 years, 9 months ago
                  That is a bit of a stretch in the definition of property rights, but I'll grant it. I recommend you also see my response to ewv below where he writes that the basic moral issue is rational egoism.
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                  • Posted by dbhalling 8 years, 9 months ago
                    It is not a stretch in the definition of property rights. Property rights are the result that you own yourself and therefore you own the things you create. The founders and Locke understood this.
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    • Posted by teri-amborn 8 years, 9 months ago
      Truth will always prevail.
      If I were Trump, I would simply say: "I don't hold to a religion but am dedicated to making certain that your principles and rights aren't violated." ...and leave it at that.
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      • Posted by $ jbrenner 8 years, 9 months ago
        Truth may eventually prevail, but it may not happen within our lifetime. America has now endured an entire generation where truth has NOT prevailed. Arguably, the fraud started in 1989. Michael Crichton in State of Fear argued as summarized in the Wikipedia site:
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_o...

        "A key concept, delivered from the eccentric Professor Hoffman, suggests, in Hoffman's words, the existence of a "politico-legal-media" complex, comparable to the "military industrial complex," of the Cold War era. Hoffman insists climate science began using more extreme, fear-inducing terms such as "crisis," "catastrophe," and, "disaster," shortly after the fall of The Berlin Wall, in order to maintain a level of fear in citizens, for the purpose of social control, since the specter of Soviet Communism was gone. This "state of fear" gives the book its title."

        We have lived in a world where A does not equal A ever since. The reason for Ayn Rand's surge in popularity is precisely because the truth has not prevailed for such a long time, just like it didn't in Atlas Shrugged for many years. When truth became a casualty, justice was not far behind.
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      • Posted by ewv 8 years, 9 months ago
        Too late for that. He's already said http://www.christianpost.com/news/don...

        "I believe in God. I am Christian. I think The Bible is certainly, it is THE book. It is the thing,"

        "I'm a Protestant, I'm a Presbyterian. And you know I've had a good relationship with the church over the years. I think religion is a wonderful thing. I think my religion is a wonderful religion.”

        But even that isn't enough for them. They're attacking him for not.publicly extolling immersing himself in mystic seances grovelling for forgiveness over nothing in particular.

        Also, neither he nor government, nor anyone else, should be "dedicated to making certain that [religious] principles aren't violated."
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        • Posted by teri-amborn 8 years, 9 months ago
          It's not the "religious principles" that should be protected. It is the principle that your life and time belong to you and you are protected under the constitution from being forced against your will to spend your time violating your own principles.

          Ayn Rand said: "Once you lose your principles you have lost everything."
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          • Posted by ewv 8 years, 9 months ago
            You wrote (as advice to Trump), directed to the religious, "I don't hold to a religion but am dedicated to making certain that your principles and rights aren't violated."

            If someone holds irrational principles they may very well conflict with legitimate law.
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            • Posted by teri-amborn 8 years, 9 months ago
              All individuals have a right to hold to the principles of life, liberty, and owning property....property includes their time.

              Please stop trying to obfuscate reality to suit what you think should be principles.

              Too many people confuse the term "principles" with "rules". Very often "rules" are an invitation to violate "principles" and "individual rights" and THAT is what is fundamentally wrong with this country today.
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              • Posted by ewv 8 years, 9 months ago
                You referred specifically to protection of religionists' principles from being "violated". Religious principles are violated all the time in a free society and should not be "protected" from that. This has nothing to do with the political right to believe anything you want to. It is you who are obfuscating.

                Religious principles are other worldly duties, which are rules. They are incompatible with the right to one's own life, liberty, property and pursuit of one's own happiness, which you left out. They are incompatible with American individualism and cannot be used to defend it as their opposite. The right to one's own life on earth cannot be defended with faith and duties to the supernatural.
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                • Posted by teri-amborn 8 years, 9 months ago
                  The problem here is that they have a right to hold to any belief and follow the rules of that belief system IF their actions (or inaction) don't violate another PERSON or their property.
                  The word "NO" isn't violating anyone.
                  Christians who don't value money above their principles are simply chosing the latter over the former.
                  The problem with our legal system and especially with laws that are non-objective is that "hurt feelings" are now looked upon as some sort of assault.
                  Laws should be in place to prevent actual loss to a person or their property by an act of aggression. That ISN'T where that type of non-objective nonsense leads to.
                  Non-objective laws (laws based upon emotions instead of reason) lead to protecting the guilty and rewarding emotional immaturity by punishing the innocent when no crime has been committed.
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    • Posted by $ jbrenner 8 years, 9 months ago
      In writing this, I am not endorsing the Christian Right, but the Christian Right is not really responsible for the state of the US today, or even that of the Republican Party. The only presidential candidate that they really supported was Reagan, who definitely should not be blamed for the current state of affairs. Those in control on the right side of the political spectrum have always despised the Christian Right, often quite publicly. The Christian Right has not dictated the Republican candidates or agenda. If they had, Mike Huckabee or Rick Santorum would have had more traction. Blaming the Christian Right for Republican failure is misplacing the blame. The same would be true if one were to try to blame the Tea Party (which includes some, but certainly far from all of those on the "Christian Right") for Republican failure. Look instead at who the Republicans have nominated since the 1980's: GHW Bush, Bob Dole, GW Bush, John McCain, and Mitt Romney. In every case, it was a mushmouthed moderate, and in all but GW Bush's case, it was the most left-leaning Republican candidate out of those running. Being two months too young to vote for Reagan in 1984, you now see the list of candidates that I could have voted for, but didn't ... because I would not compromise my values to pick the lesser of two evils.

      The real reason for the failures of the Republican Party are a) that they have adopted many of their prior enemy's objectives; b) that they refuse to stand up for anything (hence the ascendance of Trump and Walker to the top of the polls because they actually do stand up for something and oppose their enemies); and c) because they routinely stamp out opposition and ridicule anyone who stands up for Constitutional principles. The Republican Party deserves its fate not because it stands up for principles espoused by the Christian Right, but because it stands up for ... nothing.
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      • Posted by ewv 8 years, 9 months ago
        The Christian right isn't responsible in the sense of having been in political leadership positions, it is responsible for blocking meaningful reform with their package-dealing of religious dogma (and the threat of imposing it), both in politics and in any intellectual defense of capitalism. They concede reason to the left and drive people away who don't want anything to do with their religious fanaticism. They are a false alternative dragging the country down with them.
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        • Posted by $ jbrenner 8 years, 9 months ago
          The number of people in the Christian right has been few enough such that the Republican establishment has scorned them (and perhaps rightly so). Seriously, what has the Christian right blocked? Perhaps embryonic stem cell research, and precious little else. And in the meantime, stem cell researchers came up with a workaround that is not only more ethically reasonable, but relatively inexpensive and more likely to be successful in the long term. The effect of the Christian right has been ... minimal. As for the intellectual defense of capitalism, other than the current communist pope, most American Christians have embraced capitalism. It is the aforementioned mushmouthed moderate Republicans who have not only not defended capitalism, but have embraced cronyism (because it profits them). As for the defense of reason, I can't remember a time when either the Republicans or the Democrats have defended reason, except perhaps GHW Bush when he said, "It wouldn't be prudent."
          (I liked Dana Carvey's impersonation better. See below.)

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QHHG...
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          • Posted by ewv 8 years, 9 months ago
            They have been blocking reform in politics by tying their religious obsession to reform, preventing it from being taken seriously and making implementation impossible because the tea party movement is not electable with the albatross of the religious package deal. They are blocking fundamental intellectual reform every time they open their mouths tying American principles of individualism to faith and religion, denying there is a rational basis. "Embracing capitalism" and American individualism while tying it to religion is intellectually deadly. The politically suicidal religious right has left the establishment conservatives to dominate in an intellectual vacuum within the party.

            There is no such thing as a "more ethically reasonable workaround" to stem cell research or any other science conflicting with religion. The very idea of restricting science in accordance with religious dogma is morally repugnant. Bush's precedent setting selective denial of scientific funding of stem cell research on religious grounds is fundamentally abhorrent, but they have also constantly pushed for religious injunctions ranging from Creationism in schools to religious dogma like the Ten Commandments in courthouses to bans and obstructions on abortion.

            They don't block much more because they don't have the power to. Everyone knows what they are after but we are told they are no danger because they haven't done been able to do it yet.
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            • Posted by $ jbrenner 8 years, 9 months ago
              ewv, I agree with most of what you say, but on the stem cell issue, you simply don't know the technology well enough, even if I were to agree with you on the morality of using embryonic stem cells.

              Induction of pluripotency into one's own stem cells a) is technically sound because it eliminates the quite significant issue of immune rejection, b) eliminates anyone's concerns regarding morality (as the cells are own's own cells), and c) eliminates any potential issues regarding rights and ownership (as the cells are one's own cells and hence, as I said earlier, a more ethically reasonable workaround). Hence, Bush's position on stem cell research is now quite frankly a moot point.

              If you think I am exaggerating on the ownership of stem cells issue, consider the following possible dispute between embryonic stem cell therapy patients, the mother, and the clinic providing the procedure. The "mother", after signing away privileges to the aborted embryo, later could still go after the clinic nonetheless to ensure that stem cells from that embryo would not be further used.

              Would you have the same opinion if the stem cell research clinic later used the embryonic stem cells for cloning purposes?

              Regarding your last paragraph saying that they don't have the power to do so, you are correct. They will never again have that power either.
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    • Posted by ewv 8 years, 9 months ago
      The establishment Republicans aren't doing any better. The religious right corrupts whatever chance there is for meaningful reform even from their own candidates, and the establishment has nothing to offer to corrupt.
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    • Posted by $ 8 years, 9 months ago
      You may be surprised to find that I agree with you. This POTUS should never be elected because of a single or a handful of specific issues. The entire populations needs to be represented and that cannot be done by any one ideology.
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      • Posted by ewv 8 years, 9 months ago
        The only "ideology" that matters for political purposes is defending the rights of the individual, and no other philosophy in any way should be imposed by government. If a majority of, let alone the entire, population cannot support that, at least in general terms out of whatever is left of an individualist sense of life if nothing deeper, then it is over.

        Other than that principle of government, a president trying to represent the entire population is an impossibility. It becomes a futile attempt to "balance" pressure group warfare, which cannot be done but is the contradiction we have now in an ideological battle behind welfare statist unprincipled pragmatism and the egalitarian nihilist ideology of the left.
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        • Posted by $ 8 years, 9 months ago
          Its hardly impossible. The key is to adhere to the Constitution. It can do a fine job representing everyone if they, the politicians, let it.
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          • Posted by ewv 8 years, 9 months ago
            The government cannot represent everyone, with or without a Constitution, if the population does not respect individualism.
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            • Posted by $ 8 years, 9 months ago
              Our Constitution is neutral toward all men and women. It is as close to perfect as can be for human being. The issues we have with the Constitution today is moral relativism and a lack of absolutes. Without a framework of right and wrong or good and bad nothing will properly govern.
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              • Posted by ewv 8 years, 9 months ago
                No Constitution can function with citizens at each others' throats as they embrace pressure group warfare. Without respect for the rights of the individual no constitutional government can function. That is much deeper than "politicians letting it". It is not enough for politicians to claim to represent everyone no matter what they believe. What people think matters.

                Lack of religious absolutes is not the problem. "Moral relativism" is not an "issue with the Constitution". The religious "framework" is deadly to American individualism and a false alternative to ends justifies the means Pragmatism..
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                • Posted by $ 8 years, 9 months ago
                  I completely disagree with you. The Constitution was designed to ensure that government kept out of citizens affairs. The local governments, being closer to the people they represent, religious or otherwise, even less stand-offish and more actively engaged. People looking after their own interests without being told what interests to look after is the surest way to guarantee peace and prosperity. When issues of interest arise local police and local courts come into play.

                  As for moral relativism, I again disagree with you. Eg. Homosexual marriage. Okay, any two people have a right to be joined in union. But now plural marriages want acceptance? Still okay? But now, transgendered are flaring up for acceptance Still okay?Now (seriously) people want age of sexual consent lowered to 13. Still Okay? When you accept anything, when there is only shades of gray, you have nothing.

                  Moral relativism waters down the structure of a society. Structure is defined by laws. Laws are defined by people. People define their morality through their beliefs.

                  Yeah, moral relativism doesn't mean anything.
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 8 years, 9 months ago
    Refreshing for sure... I LOVE all the scrambling he's causing. Someone with some balls who speaks his mind unfiltered, no p.c., and unapologetic. They can't handle it! lol I laughed out loud today when he gave out Lindsay Graham's cell phone number...omg.

    https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p...
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    • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 9 months ago
      I'll give him credit for having nerve. But I'm not at all sure it's the right kind.

      Now if he were saying about welfare recipients the kinds of things he says about Mexicans, I'd be in his camp.
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      • Posted by LetsShrug 8 years, 9 months ago
        Seems like the right kind to me so far...honesty. Speaking of which I watched his entire SC speech from yesterday and he mentioned in there how he has given money to everybody dems and repubs, he followed it by saying "I'm a business man, until two months ago I was a business man and I know how to get deals done...and that by the way is part of the problem with our system." (Not a direct quote), but the point is, he admits his dealings and understands the system is a mess and says so. Who else does that?
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        • Posted by ewv 8 years, 9 months ago
          "Deals" for what and at what cost? He has yet to endorse protecting the rights and freedom of the individual as a matter of principle His obsessive emphasis on "making deals" and boasting that he "knows all the smart people" is unprincipled pragmatism, as if the solution to the decline of the country lies in making better "deals" as an end in themselves. He has attracted a lot of attention for blasting particular establishment problems with appeals to common sense, but has no depth himself.
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          • Posted by LetsShrug 8 years, 9 months ago
            Maybe....maybe not. It's early. The point is that he's stirring things up and making the others take notice... the establishment is shocked that he's getting listened to as if they can't understand WHY. This playing nice guy, pussy footing around and having polite tones ISN'T WORKING! When Trump says "they're all talk and no action"...he's right. Enjoy the refreshment...the election isn't tomorrow...
            He gave out Lindsay Graham's cell phone number!! LOLOLOL..
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            • Posted by ewv 8 years, 9 months ago
              There is no indication at all that Trump has the depth and knowledge to lead the country in the right direction. It is good that he is raising controversial topics that the establishment doesn't want discussed, and doing so in a non-pandering manner they don't know what to do with as he properly denounces them, but not good that he lacks the ability to properly follow up himself. He is right that they are "all talk and no action" -- on certain positions like Obamacare on which they refuse to keep their own campaign promises -- but proper action takes rational thought, which neither Trump nor the rest of them have. Promoting "action" without that is the dangerous demagoguery Ayn Rand warned about. This is too serious to treat it as "refreshment".
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              • Posted by LetsShrug 8 years, 9 months ago
                You don't know yet what his "depth" is. The rest are weak beyond words and have proven it..( maybe not Fiorina...) a lot remains to be seen...get your panties out their twist and enjoy a good side of this political circus and learn what he's made of. Sheesh stop being a buzz kill.
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                • Posted by ewv 8 years, 9 months ago
                  Trump himself has not been able to show any intellectual depth either in his campaign or previous statements, or his previous inconsistencies. His narrower success in real estate is not an intellectual basis or a basis of experience to run the government in accordance with the proper principles. Your personal insults attempting to be "colorful" are intellectually vacuous and worse crap than Trump at his worst.
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  • Posted by woodlema 8 years, 9 months ago
    Trump may have had a leg up in life with a wealthy father, and a great education. His Father may have been worth 300 million when he died, and he may have left that to Donald.

    BUT....Donald took whatever it was he was left by his father that and turned it into BILLIONS.

    Ayn Rand said it:"Money is only a tool. It will take you wherever you wish, but it will not replace you as the driver."

    As far as I am concerned I would like to see him driving this country based on the past 40 years of his business track record.
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  • Posted by $ sjatkins 8 years, 9 months ago
    I admire that he did not kowtow to such crap. A candidate's religious beliefs or lack of same has nothing at all to do with their fitness for such a position. We do have a little thing like separation of Church and State in this country. Such questions in a more decent society would have been flagged as completely out of order and inappropriate.
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  • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 9 months ago
    I enjoy reading about Trump and what he has said and what precious applecarts he has overturned. Yay!

    But the man himself irritates me beyond words. I have watched him on a screen for probably less than 2 minutes total, and that is about all I can take. I may vote for him; I don't want to see or hear him.

    Jan
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 9 months ago
    Trump begs the question can a truth teller who reveals his true persona win an election? The warlocks of wisdom seem to be saying no. Trump seems to be saying, "We'll see about that."
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  • Posted by superfluities 8 years, 9 months ago
    I'm liking Trump because he doesn't rescind his comments the next day with the PC formulated answer of the day. I'm not ruling him out. I interact with the profit producing public every day and they like the none PC Trump monster!
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 8 years, 9 months ago
    Everybody knows you need to fake a relationship with god in order to be elected.

    More of the media telling you what to think. The target audience of this kind of stuff covets the neighbor's wife. Don't matter...
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    • Posted by LetsShrug 8 years, 9 months ago
      Amazing how they demand a candidate to have a "relationship with God' but don't bat an eye at corruption, lies, coercion, or cigars and blow jobs in the oval office...THAT'S just politics. I don't get it.
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      • Posted by $ Abaco 8 years, 9 months ago
        They're hypocrites. Whenever somebody tells me they are a Christian I hide my wife and kids and move my wallet from my back pocket to a front pocket...

        I remember those images of Clinton coming down the church steps one Sunday morning right after getting his knob slobbed by an intern about the age of his daughter.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 8 years, 9 months ago
    I find Trump's apparently candid honesty to be refreshing, entertaining and at times very funny.
    Should Trump rise to the top of huge heap, I may vote for him.
    I have been favoring Scott Walker but lately I've become very impressed with listening to Carly Fiornia speak. She's extremely sharp and intelligent.
    She recently told Megyn Kelly that she's love to debate Hillary. I'd love to see that too.
    At least the lamestream media couldn't use a discrediting man bullying a woman slant.
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    • Posted by $ Abaco 8 years, 9 months ago
      I find Trump to be refreshing and funny, too. For a year or so I would catch his Golf Channel show and I got hooked a little. He's an interesting guy. I thought he was a bit of an ass, but the kind of guy I could probably hang with and/or work for. I really like how open he is in front of the camera. And, for better or worse, his comments about McCain didn't bother me. This is because I think McCain has really betrayed us lately.
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      • Posted by $ allosaur 8 years, 9 months ago
        McCain started it, setting Trump off by calling those who supported him crazies.
        Trump is the kinda guy you don't throw mud at if you don't want mud thrown back.
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  • Posted by Flootus5 8 years, 9 months ago
    I just wish Trump would think a bit before opening his trap. If he could combine his strong independence with more intelligent dialogue, he could likely prevail.

    He could have acknowledged McCain's war record with respect, but then lambasted his legacy as a sell-out politician all without backing down. The truth works.

    The same with the religious thing. The truth works.
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    • Posted by LetsShrug 8 years, 9 months ago
      What's unintelligent about saying the truth??
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      • Posted by Flootus5 8 years, 9 months ago
        Absolutely nothing.
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        • Posted by LetsShrug 8 years, 9 months ago
          If he's going to speak the truth why do you say he needs to think before he speaks?? For what purpose? Tone??? Ugh
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          • Posted by Flootus5 8 years, 9 months ago
            Anybody needs to think to ascertain the truth before speaking. It's called Objectivism.
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            • Posted by LetsShrug 8 years, 9 months ago
              Oh...okay, thanks, cuz I don't understand objectivism.. sigh... Just because he doesn't hesitate doesn't mean he's not thinking, he just isn't stopping to make sure he's using the right 'tooooone'... the tone is not relevant. People can't handle a blunt, quick response based in honest opinion. Everything has to be wrapped in a coating of soft nice feel good sparkles these days. I just don't get it.
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              • Posted by Flootus5 8 years, 9 months ago
                I'm not sure about your emphasis on tone. If your saying quit the sugar coated standard political rhetoric - indeed. What I am saying is by cutting to the chase with strong, but well thought positions, rather than the bombastic, off the handle, headline grabbing antics, he would represent a serious candidate for the job. While I enjoy the candor and the upsetting of apple carts, I think it could be easily done in a manner that also supports a candidates credibility. I am not sure this style is going to get him all the way to the White House.

                I don't know, maybe he knows that and his main goal is to just stir the pot and help the vetting of the big list of candidates. Especially towards weeding out the lily livered elites. Like AJ says he is not stupid and maybe that is the game plan.
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                • Posted by khalling 8 years, 9 months ago
                  I'll say this. He did not start it and he was bullied. McCain calling people crazy and Graham calling him a jackass. You know what-I did not appreciate their tone. and you take no prisoners with bullies. as to his presidential qualifications-well he's more qualified than those two bozos. BUt I do think he is the music they play at hockey games you thrill to until the players get on the ice. I do not think he comes froma strong moral foundation so -wild card. He is ultimately a statist and in the past has had no qualms over trampling others property to get more for himself. He has consistently been a crony who used that lever to great advantage.All he's done for me is let a little steam off. It's a short term solution but not great policy making
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                  • Posted by Flootus5 8 years, 9 months ago
                    Good point on the attacks. He is getting their goat, so to speak.

                    And now I see he is threatening a third party is not out of the question. High, high stakes there. The Bull Moose/Perot thing.

                    I need to learn more about his track record. You say he is a statist and a crony and will trample others in some fashion. If anyone can recognize a statist, it would be you. I must learn more.
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                    • Posted by khalling 8 years, 9 months ago
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                      • Posted by Flootus5 8 years, 9 months ago
                        Very interesting and informative. He is clearly a political animal and does not hold any consistent pattern or "Platform" (I really dislike that word these days) of principles. He is really all over the place, just seems almost at random he will hit the mark very accurately and then on another day or year, be way out there.

                        Based on the coverage of his statements on healthcare, I would be terrified of healthcare fascism taking hold. Definitely the statist in there. Not that we have anything different at this point, but he is clearly not the one to help solve this mess. It appears Mr business man has not a clue to what free market means.

                        And so, everyone at one point or another is a "great guy". Why? Cause they can laugh while beveraging? Apparently it has nothing to do with ones values or qualifications.

                        Very interesting. Thanks for posting.
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                  • Posted by LetsShrug 8 years, 9 months ago
                    Except when this hockey game music stops, there won't be a real game to watch afterwards... instead there will only be a toilet's swirling drain to witness.... Did you bring your foam finger?
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                    • Posted by khalling 8 years, 9 months ago
                      I disagree.
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                      • Posted by LetsShrug 8 years, 9 months ago
                        .....? More please.
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                        • Posted by khalling 8 years, 9 months ago
                          He 's a complete statist. He was for universal healthcare, raising taxes. Highly praised Hilary, Kerry, called Obana "a great guy"
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                          • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 8 years, 9 months ago
                            Hello khalling,
                            The earlier support for universal healthcare and raising taxes are the most troubling to me. I have not heard any acceptable explanation or convincing arguments from him about a change of position on these matters. As for the other points you mentioned I heard a comment from him the other day that may shed some light... He claimed that he had to play the game to get things done and that was one of the reasons he wanted to get into the race...(paraphrase). He apparently greased the wheels with whoever had the power at the time. The implication I gleaned was that he recognized the cronyism and knew it for the problem it was, apparently felt compelled to play along at the time, but thought he would be different... I want more elaboration from him on this issue. If he thinks he would be above such things because of his wealth... I don't know what to make of his rhetoric... if it is what he truly believes now... what is in his mind??? Still his forcing of some of the issues is refreshing and illuminating in regard to the responses of his competitors. We shall see... I still think he will crash and burn ultimately, but I will enjoy the show.
                            Respectfully,
                            O.A.
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                • Posted by LetsShrug 8 years, 9 months ago
                  I don't know either, but I wish people would just hear the point and quite with splitting hairs over his choice of words or the tone or his style. I'm so sick of those who appease or use kitty cat purring p.c. say it like you mean it. Confident and strong.! Brutal honesty.
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              • Posted by $ 8 years, 9 months ago
                Precisely. Anyone who thinks Trump is stupid hasn't been following him very much. He is behaving exactly as he always has.

                "I have a ton of money. You can't buy me. I'll say whatever the hell I want and you can kiss my ass if you don't like it."

                Aide from being crass this reminds me of the T. Roosevelt and short lived the Bull Moose Party. The Republicans bent over backwards to ride the teddy-train into power.
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  • Posted by $ sekeres 8 years, 9 months ago
    What troubles me is that I've never been to a Presbyterian church that served a "little wine" and a "little cracker" as part of the ritual cannabalism. It's always been grape juice and bread. Roman Catholic, yes; Greek Orthodox, yes; Lutheran, yes; Presbyterian, no. Maybe NYC is different from flyover country?
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    • Posted by teri-amborn 8 years, 9 months ago
      The communion ritual is simply the Sedur.
      It isn't in reference to canibalism, it is in reference to Passover and the flight of the Jews from Egypt.

      You might even say it is about fleeing things that are holding you in bondage and there is a "rescuer" who is paving the way for your escape.
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