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Supreme Court extends same-sex marriage nationwide

Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 8 years, 11 months ago to Government
271 comments | Share | Flag

Well there you have it folks. Another decision that has the effect of complicating and distorting our language.

I personally have no problems with what the LGBT people do. It is only a matter of definitions and giving new meaning to existing words that bothers me. I believe that a new word should have been created and that equal rights in every way should be granted. Unfortunately now the word marriage will be less descriptive and specific. This has been the case of several decisions lately that only confound our language. The court believes it can re-write Webster's dictionary.
Respectfully,
O.A.

Addendum: Some final thoughts
After contemplating the arguments presented, I wish it understood that since I have no strong religious convictions on this matter, I have no personal problems with this ruling other than a minor irritation with the effective changing of the definition of the word marriage. I will have little difficulty adjusting my language and accepting the outcome. However, others of a contrary nature and the undoubted turmoil that will ensue for our nation will not likely foster comity. After all there are a very large number of people of religious convictions that will not wish to have their rights to practice and live by their beliefs abrogated.

I accept the absolute right of free association that is involved, but free association as a right cannot exist without its corollary of disassociation. One cannot objectively avoid recognition that this ruling will lead to the violation of rights of those that hold a contrary view by forcing them into associations they would otherwise avoid.

The problem’s origin seems to stem from the fact that the government has bestowed upon holders of a “marriage” license, benefits that others were not granted. This is unequal treatment and thus unjust. This is the crux of the problem and should be rectified and could be done easily by eliminating those benefits or granting them to everyone regardless of possession of such a license. It would seem that it is largely the result of government getting into something it should not have in the first place and as usual producing unanticipated consequences.

Is acquisition of this license in and of itself a fundamental right? If this were so, would it not apply to a driver’s license also? It has been understood that such a license is a privilege, which by definition one must qualify for. Taken to its ultimate conclusion, would not this line of reasoning lead one to conclude that any license or even contract that someone else can acquire is equally a right for all regardless of criteria? For instance should one demand that since some have contracts with the NBA that it should be the right of all so desiring? This is of course reductio ad absurdum.

What precedent for our nation and the effects upon states rights and the tenth amendment will this have? The implications are incalculable. The more cases that redefine the meaning of words, the more cases of the past will be in jeopardy. Without unchanging meanings we become a nation not of written laws, but of the whims of men and the political winds of the time. The fact that some words already have ambiguity is not a persuasive argument for acceptance of more of the same done with purpose born of temporary convenience or political correctness.

Some say (as the majority opinion did) that this is necessary to grant dignity and respect for the pro gay marriage crowd. This argument is specious since no government issued paper can grant dignity. Dignity is a reflection/matter of approval and acceptance of one's peers and the community.

Ultimately our nation will likely suffer further division and struggle with this issue just as we still do with Roe v. Wade. This is unfortunate since there were other alternatives. I hope it is not more than our ever more fragile peace between factions can handle. Frankly I hope I am wrong in this matter and we can move past it, but it does seem inevitable that our courts will be needlessly filled with cases where some “rights” are pitted against others. The mark of a legitimate fundamental right is that it does not conflict with others.

In closing, I would like to thank all those that have participated in this conversation and invite the reader to comment further as they desire.
Respectfully,
O.A.



All Comments


Previous comments...   You are currently on page 5.
  • Posted by JohnConnor352 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Can you please tell me what is so different, then? And while you're at, how and why they ought To be treated differently?
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  • Posted by Timelord 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    My first marriage was interracial, they stiffed me for my fee.

    My second and third were for people I knew and my fourth was my sister and her husband (I told my French mémère that I was giving my sister a 25% discount. She snapped that I'd better not charge my own sister - until I laughed and assured her I was joking. My poor mémère had a hard time with jokes.)

    I married a woman I work with and she said her husband might not have gotten through it if it weren't for my calming banter during our wait for the bride.

    I had planned to advertise in the local "alternative" newspaper for same sex ceremonies but I never spent the money to do it.

    My most recent was a special request for a new year's day ceremony, 3rd marriage for both. Just me and them in my dining room. There was at least 4' of snow on the ground but my walk was clear and it was sunny and beautiful with no coats required. I took some gorgeous photos of them and all you could see was pure white snow and snowy evergreens all around them.
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  • Posted by $ number6 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    So the issue should have been to grant equal legal rights (as in Germany and Switzerland) but there was no demands it be called marriage? ... never said it was super secret, it was VERY obvious ..... lol ..

    got a better idea .... GFYAS ....
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  • Posted by Timelord 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You get credit for being blatantly honest, which I approve of.

    You get minus ten billion credits for being an a-hole. Who defines perversion? The bible? I don't recognize the bible except for the ridiculously poor piece of literature that it is.

    But let's play in your world. The bible prohibits sex except for procreation, prohibits sex outside of marriage, prohibits oral and anal sex, prohibits sex with a woman during her period, encourages sex with your slaves and servants and advocates for plural marriage.

    Which of these perversions do you enjoy the most? Here's an idea, put your stones down lest your own house be shattered.
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  • Posted by $ number6 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    again I personally have no problems about equal protection and treatment under the law .... violate the rights if you prefer instead of offending someone rightS...
    this was a radical elements attempt to stick it to the religious radicals. (and not all LGBT are radicals)

    I agree with your last point .... this issue will expand because there has to be some "grievance" for activists to whine about and say "see us"
    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/27/us/sco...
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  • Posted by Timelord 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    See, the government should have stayed out of it from the beginning. But just like now, it was the religious radicals who demanded action, and they got it. If the churchies would just stay out of other people's lives the world would be a better place.
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  • Posted by Timelord 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    (We have already seen lawsuits against Catholic Charities for their hiring practices respective to their religious views.)

    Right, and that was caused by previous non-discrimination laws that I consider immoral and unjust, as I've said in countless posts. Those laws correctly apply to gov't, not the private sector.

    But why am I the only person who points out that ALL non-discrimination laws are anti-freedom? It's so easy for everyone to attack the radical LGBT activists and conveniently ignore that gov't has been doing this to us for decades. Nobody else has written that anti-discrimination laws are wrong and should be repealed. nobody else has written that it should be ok, from a legal standpoint, for any private business to deny service to anyone they please for any reason.

    I believe it's wrong morally, so it's an issue for the free market to address, not the legislature or the courts.
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  • Posted by Timelord 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    (But it is a fallacy of reasoning to try to equate two things that are inherently different. To say that a heterosexual union is the same as a homosexual union is to argue that A = B.)

    Really, why? If we look at the root of what a marriage is we can see that it's a union recognized by gov't that codified rights of inheritance, allows one party to make decisions for both, allows for medical decisions when one party is incapacitated, etc. The ruling only affects secular (gov't) institutions.

    Based on that, the union described is a marriage. I don't believe gender is any more relevant to the issue than race or religious affiliation.

    From the standpoint of most religions, you're right, gender is a fundamental issue.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    and proving a negative is impossible, unless it's Your NO
    and he wants to violate it. . women should be armed, or trained in martial arts! -- j
    .
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  • Posted by Timelord 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    SCOTUS' job is to nullify unconstitutional law. It doesn't matter if the vote was 10 million to one in favor at the polls.

    Referring to the sanctity of "the will of the people" is to deny that we live in a republic where the rights of the minority are protected from the tyranny of the majority.
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  • Posted by Timelord 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    (LGBT people already had equal rights and equal protection)

    No, we didn't. Many states didn't allow same sex unions by any name, and in those that did it was not always equal to marriage.

    (This was about highjacking the term "marriage" .......
    As is shown by YOUR statement "No, that was just icing on the cake. ")

    First of all, it was my own private delight that radical Christian activists were pissed off by the ruling. I'm so tired of them forcing their beliefs on me...

    Second, this is the first time you mentioned that our super-secret goal wasn't to be allowed to be married but rather to insist that it be called "marriage" instead of some other word that meant the same thing. (Sensible people will recognize the absurdity of that right away.) You're only half right, which for you is an improvement. It wasn't secret at all that it should be called marriage - since that's what it is.

    (but to offend the rights of the religious people who believe marriage is only M-F (even if there stance is bigoted) is not protecting THEIR rights.)

    Here you go again complaining about an imaginary issue. Religious people can believe whatever they want, now as before. There has been absolutely NO infringement on their rights. What right do they imagine they have that is now being violated? Is it their right to ensure that English never evolves? There's no such right. Is it their right to "believe marriage is only M-F?" They are still free to believe that. They're free to believe in unicorns if they want to. As had been said over and over, this ruling ONLY AFFECTS GOVERNMENT! Individuals are free to follow their conscience and believe as they please. And if they, as private individuals, refuse to use the word marriage for same sex unions, who cares? They can call it an avocado if they want to.

    Stop imagining that any person's rights were violated because it's NOT TRUE!

    You can reply if you want but this discussion has played out as far as I'm concerned. If you want to explain clearly and precisely what right has been infringed and explain why, I'll read it. But if you're going to rehash unsupported claims that I have already addressed, clearly and rationally, then I won't waste my time.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Then I guess I'll support the incredibly naive. I try to stick to the facts as much as possible and not 'down the road''discussions with a third party or other comments. the problem was the states inextricably married the concept of marriage to a slew of legal ramifications and in doing so redefined marriage.as a word. They didn't think it through for 'problems down the road.' thus handing any future litigation all the ammunition they needed.

    People tend to forget it''s a whole document and one part is affected by many others. It bit them and in doing so bit us right on the hind parts.

    It's incredibly naive to cherry pick and take things out of context.

    Who won? The lawyers. Who lost? The nation.
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  • Posted by TheRealBill 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "Perversion" has always been a right. the constitution does not protect rights it, properly, limits government. The moment you accept government defining "rights" to be protected, you've lost.
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  • Posted by TheRealBill 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Actually it goes back further to the "protection" of lineage - to ensure the offspring are of the husband. The origin of marriage isn't religious but territorial. Religion came into it later.

    This is why I find arguments based in "traditional marriage" hollow. Traditions on marriage have changed in even the last 100-200 years, more than once.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It is neither injustice nor tyranny to recognize the differences in the two circumstances and treat them differently as a result. The logical flaw in the entire argument is that the circumstances are equivalent and therefore fall under the Equal Treatment clause at all.

    Should government be involved in marriage? No. But it is a fallacy of reasoning to try to equate two things that are inherently different. To say that a heterosexual union is the same as a homosexual union is to argue that A = B.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes. Add to this ruling the ruling against Texas on public housing and the Obamacare ruling and the power of the Federal Government just took leaps and bounds towards an authoritarian state.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Actually, it was that very legislation that was at the heart of the suit. The state had already declined to issue marriage licenses to homosexuals, most of them decided by public referendum defining marriage to be exclusively between a man and a woman. The Federal Courts took it upon themselves to override both legislation and public referendums and declare the will of the people void and unConstitutional despite having no authority to do so.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I can see lawsuits against every Christian religion already written and just waiting for the courts to open on Monday to be filed.

    The question I want to see: are they going to go after the Muslims?
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  • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "this ruling doesn't affect churches or religion in any way"

    You are incredibly naive to think so. Justice Alito in oral arguments specifically asked about the ramifications of a decision to force recognition of homosexual unions to the Solicitor General. The reply was to admit that there would be inevitably by problems down the road. We have already seen lawsuits against Catholic Charities for their hiring practices respective to their religious views. If you don't think the homosexual activists aren't absolutely salivating about a whole slew of lawsuits against every religious or non-religious organization that doesn't embrace their particular religion.

    And your arguments about a Justice of the Peace performing such ceremonies reminds me of the litigation against bakers and photographers - of which there are certainly a bounty - who were nonetheless forced out of business despite this! That there certainly existed other options for services does not matter to these ideologues - their goal is to force their opinion on everyone else. They have no interest in regard for others beliefs.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm betting that those lawsuits are already written and ready and that we will see them begin in the lower courts within the month.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "it was when the state first became involved in the process"

    Yup. And do you want to know WHY they started getting involved? It was to prevent interracial marriage, ie marriages between blacks and whites.
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