Who Do You Serve?
Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 10 months ago to Government
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The Uniform Code of Military Justice imposes a duty on the service member to disobey any order that is unconstitutional or could be a war crime. That some follow such orders under stressful conditions is part of the flaws that come with being human.
The problem we are currently facing is that the terrorist enemies we are dealing with are driven by a pathological, irrational ideology that worships death. Even the most passionate emperor-worshipping Japanese was not operating in the same insane region as extremist Islamists. Sitting on our hands waiting to defend ourselves when we're directly attacked, indifferent to the suffering of others is suicidal.
Another post here notes that Libertarian or free states don't start wars, the counter to that is that they're frequently the victims of more militaristic nations that do start wars. Only Switzerland seems to have avoided this fate, thanks to geography and a highly militarized society.
It's one thing to dream about the society that might be, and another to live in the real world. Have we stumbled into conflicts that we should have staid out of? Absolutely, with Vietnam being the classic example, but that doesn't mean we should retreat into a shell, singing Kumbaya and asking to give peace a chance.
The Nuremberg Defense given in advance is still an admission of guilt with a simultaneous plea for clemency or leniency in sentencing. It does not supersede everything to anyone that understands the oath to support and defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. ALL.
Notice in the oath no member of the military swears loyalty to the President, the congress, the Supreme Court, the people, the flag, the country. Only to the Constitution.
I heard on the radio recently an interesting claim. Throughout history, wars are only initiated by militarized states, police states, with standing armies. Libertarian or free states have never, ever, initiated a war. Libertarians just want to be left alone to be free and productive. To live.
Still, being prepared to fight just wars (defensive wars) is one of the jobs of the Government, right? America seems to have started with a system of militias, but soon gravitated to the large militarized state that it is now, fighting wars across the globe, at the whims (and strategies) of politicians.
Is there progress. Certainly. The USA was the first to show the world the possibilities of two concepts. First with the Declaration and the Constitution which put citizens at the top of the heap and government second. In theory.An idea never before used or considered. The next great idea will have a springboard unless they are destined for an early demise and take one more step forward.
The second great idea was helping your neighbor without taking over your neighbors property. Monroe Doctrine. An idea that also shocked the world - then turned into Manifest Destiny.
Free States turn to a military of some sort capable of defending against those in other stages of development or they succumb to manifest destiny. Let's see there is Sweden which went from a major war monger to pacifists with a huge and efficient standing military and war material economy. Switzerland probably the prime example. Costa Rica used everyone else to defend Costa Rica and are not prepared to fight who else?
I suspect the military could be cut 30% overall if those who fight are retained and the REMFs take a 70% cut. Based on 24 years doing the job. Some easy and obvious steps but it wouldn't save any money.
The term for that is ha ha Peace Dividend another name for political BS.
If it's important enough enough will step forward. If enough do not step forward it isn't important.
The next step is wishing you had got rid of the draft when you had the chance instead of quitting with the job half done. (Comment on those who quit.)
In the end it's a cycle that sometimes regresses but once in a while progresses. The missing ingredient is citizens who accept rights AND responsibilities.
As far the military breaking a person down to make them be a killer they have to in order to save their life in combat. Most that go into the military never fired a gun and have no idea about survival of the fit which in my eyes needs to be done being raised hunting for food at a very early age. Those not being raised killing, gutting, and skinning their supper find the act of killing very hard and drive them insane. So yes the military has to be hard on these recruits in order to keep them alive in my mind.
As I read some of the threads here of those proud of their service it makes me proud I'm an American and there are others willing to put themselves on the line for my freedom and the freedom of those with no guts.
When the fight comes here on our homeland I will not be alone.
I think our involvement in both World Wars was justified and necessary, although I know in the Gulch there will be disagreement on that.
I'm no longer as sure about the Civil War, because of its enormous cost in lives, destruction and subsequent hatreds lasting even now. One would think that reasonable men could have found an alternative to ending slavery, which I know was not the only issue, but I believe it was the primary one.
The one I am most clear on, perhaps because it was during the years I might have served, was Vietnam. It was clearly not justified nor in our national interest (same thing, maybe). Winning in Vietnam was not going to end Communism, or even deal it a serious blow. (However "winning" might have been defined.) The draft was clearly unconstitutional, and if not considered so, is clearly an immoral violation of individual rights. It was right to oppose the draft.
But the bottom line of my opposition to Vietnam, as important as the fact that it was not in our interests to be there, is that we were clearly not using the full power available to us to win the war. It was clearly and truly a waste of the lives of those who served there. And the worst form of self-sacrifice: to no purpose. I opposed it, and would again.
But today, I sincerely believe that radical Muslims are a "clear and present" danger to the US and the civilized world. I believe that we will have to face them sooner or later. I just hope if we do it, we will have real leaders who will rely more on intelligence and technology, but I know "boots on the ground" can never be fully eliminated.
And once again, I have a personal interest: this time my only son, who turned 16 three days ago. I can't imagine that ISIS (or some related conflict) will not come along, or more accurately, will not continue to increase as a threat, and my son will have decisions to make.
That war was primarily about Lincoln (and his new Republican Party, born again from the death of the Whigs) passing tariffs that tripled taxes on the Southern states to raise money to pay to manufacturers (supporters of the Republicans and Lincoln) in the North.
Southern leaders tried repeatedly to meet with Lincoln to reach a compromise to avoid war and Lincoln refused to see them in the days just before the war began.
There has been a concerted effort for 150 years to hide the truth (as winners of wars have done for millennia.) Read "The Real Lincoln" by Thomas DiLorenzo for factual, well researched and supported details.
Good luck with your son I'm sure you've done well in teaching him good decision making.
Being a veteran, I can certainly tell you that it's impossible to wage war with the punks that you see on the street. It takes months of "breaking down" the punks, and building them up into soldiers that enables one to win wars (or at least battles; we won EVERY battle in Vietnam, yet "lost" the war - how do you do that?!?).
The author is attacking the very thing that keeps the barbarians and savages from our gates. All one has to do is look around the world, and see that the kumbaya that the author espouses doesn't exist. If you're not willing to do what's necessary to defend what's yours only betrays a level of cowardice that makes you a liability, rather than an asset. It also makes you a likely target.
The basic flaw in the US is the claim by politicians that they can fix anything. Their hubris has been so extraordinary that they presume to tell generals how to wage war, businessmen how to run businesses, doctors how to treat patients, and everyone else on how to run their lives. The fault is ours, because we keep reelecting these knuckleheads, which makes us absolute assholes, especially when we presume, like the author, that what's wrong is the system, and not the bad actors.
Jan
"This is the substance of what makes living somewhere a joy. This is civilization. This is what lifts us up as beings animated by love and inspiration rather than fear."
I was with him till he pulled the 'flower child' argument.
"What is the weapon one needs to fight such an enemy? [destroyers] For once, it is I who will say that love is the answer--love in the actual meaning of the word, which is the opposite of the meaning they give it--love as a response to values, love of the good for being the good. If you hold on to the vision of any value you love--your mind, your work, your wife or husband, or your child--and remember that that is what the enemy is after, your shudder of rebellion will give you the moral fire, the courage and intransigence needed in this battle. What fuel can support one's fire? Love for man at his highest potential."
So the "love and inspiration stuff" had its place in Ayn Rand's writings.
Another great article, freedomforall.
And, for my life and my love of it, I will never live for another or ask another to live for mine.
Killing strangers isn't nearly the challenge a man faces by raising his own kids and taking care of his family for better or worse. American's, I think, have a misplaced concept of what is macho. So few men in America tackle the real challenge anymore that our nation is suffering for it. Sure, we can level Iraq. But, look at Detroit...
Until they are used in your neighborhood against tea party demonstrators characterized and convicted wiothout evidence by the fedgov as domestic terrorists.
So we should have a small defensive force and not be a first strike armed force. However, if someone strikes us, as in 2001, then you fight back with all your might and fury, like we did in 1941. Bring the full force and might of the United States Military and soundly defeat the enemy. Not this "Mission Accomplished" BS that the last 2 administrations has put out there. I also believe we should stand by our friends and help those who need it, but we should not pander our enemies and empower them. Mr. Kissinger, although I respect him, needs to retire in quiet and peaceful solitude. The military-industrial complex needs to get a different business model until needed. We did not have it until WWII, then it blossomed out of nothing. Car factories were making making tanks and jeeps, aircraft manufacturers were making civilian planes and started to make fighters and bombers. Other companies did whatever they had to do to contribute. But WWII set us up for what we have today, the Cold War and the Marshall Plan set us up as defenders of Europe, mostly because Europe was devastated as war always does. That set up our constant military presence throughout the world. The politicians loved all that power and sought to create more and more. History is full of empires that got into the mess we are in and it did not end kindly for them. When I was on the ships, I had lots of free time and spent many hours reading the history books in the ship's library. It is amazing what is not taught in school as far as history and it is getting worse.
Atlas Shrugged was supposed to be a warning, <i>Not</i> A Newspaper!
All it takes is a well written five paragraph field order. Some advance training which eliminates most reserve units.(Kent State and leadership.
1. Situation. A small but unknown amount of terrorist activists are moving to take over key government facilities and personnel (Executive Buildings, Congress and The Capitol, Supreme Court, Treasury, and other facilities. Key national infrastructure (communications, information distribution, power distribution, transportation routes, financial and other facilities within the next week to ten days with plans to disrupt financial systems adversely affecting the population especially senior citizens. They include both foreign and domestic elements.
2. Mission. In a quiet and unassuming manner rapidly seize, secure and defend key government and non-government agencies, facilities, and infrastructures and ensure the employees carry out their normal functions and providing as necessary communications and transportation between the different sites.
3. Execution: This unit has been tasked and will rapidly and professionally take control of (see list of sites) prior to 2400 this date and using ROE (Rules Of Engagement) specified.
This unit will not violate the Civil Rights of fellow citizens under their care and protection consistent with taking care of and protecting them while allowing free access to telephones, cell radio phones until the crisis and the terrorists are deemed controlled and the matter resolved successfully and conclusively.
The unit will work with the on site security systems and personnel at all times. Work with does not mean work for. Unit commanders and leaders are completely in charge.
Previously identified persons of interest will be taken into custody, not interviewed,separated, secured and delivered to designated law enforcement and intelligence agency collection points.....
The normal flow of commerce will be protected and not interrupted however be on the alert for interference by in house dissidents or infiltrators.
4. Command and Sign
5. Service and Support
the following are samples of what guidance is given might be provided prior to initiating a plan.
It is quickly written.. I could embellish until the cows came home but it's of little value to this post.
The point is any soldier would find no fault no matter which building or facility or individual they were ordered to secure. There would be nothing to see. Everything that is out in the open completely normal.
At some point someone gets to make a public statement. No one gets excited. It's ho hum business as usual. Traffic especially in the major cities is normal. People go to work, home, shopping reinforced by readily available knowledge all is well.
But if a certain level or situation developed..
React quickly, swiftly and decisively. Control the situation and remove the component parts.
or
Refer all journalists to Public Affairs. Do not give interviews nor answer questions . Exhibit an aura of calm and of purpose.
Deadly Force is authorized only if taken under fire and only against those firing and when commanded to return fire. Ensure all helmet vidcams are operating and transmitting.
Should individuals or units of other agencies approach halt them, require a representative to advance and be recognized. report and receive validation of bona fide - before allowing access.
In these type situation report immediately and if necessary delay any procedures until UÄV or static cameras and other surveillance devices are in place.
Crowd Control
The entire scenario is designed to allow gatherings of people in certain easy to secure areas, to allow monitoring and surveillance for identification purposes and allow an exit for any wishing not to continue the activity with certain routes of egress manned for apprehension purposes of those identified as leaders or controllers or those armed. It is our intention to broadcast, In some cases stadium style screens or internet posts may be useful in showing real time photos of those identified as leaders or the actual activities of any belligerents. Peaceful demonstrations or speeches are not to be interfered with.
Normal flow of business procedures and a picture of the nation's sons and daughters protecting the nation.
Soldiers and their leaders should be trained not to be unduly impressed with posture of power encounters from LEA or high government officials. Soldiers owe their allegiance to the Constitution and their leaders.
Given 24 to 48 hours it's amazing what changed can be reported while maintaining complete control primarily through initial swift action and candidly openly reporting and allowing reports of what what the public wants to see.
Especially if it conflicts with a good football game.
Please excuse length and any spelling errors.
was on active duty and in the active reserves, I
served the u.s. which I continued to dream of, which
I had fallen in love with, when I fell for Rand in my
teens. . this was not unwholesome. . the country left me;;;
I did not leave the country. . in my elder years,
having retired when I was 59, I am leaving the
country, in my heart. . so there. -- j
.
The current subset of idiots with the power right now can do there best to destroy her, and they may succeed temporarily, but now that they are out there, those fundamental, true and timeless ideals cannot be destroyed. If they are lost, they will be found again, with lessons learned and a better world to be made.
.
that many of their raw desires for freedom align well
with Rand, and maybe, just maybe, they will mature
enough to see that Rand's view of human interaction
was really smart -- and harmonious with our
nature. . maybe, just maybe....... -- j
.
I went through Basic in the 70's. I learned to become a military 'automation'...not that it stuck for more than about 10 seconds. The USAF did not let women handle guns in Basic at that time. Damn. I have done martial arts before and since that time.
It is going to make a tremendous difference in our society when women fight for freedom on the front lines. We have been able to vote for generations, but the other side of that coin is to earn that right in blood. Now that we are out there, we will come back as not-victims (which too many women still are).
Insofar as the admittedly sad story of the suicide: We are at fault as a culture. I hung around with WWII pilots (my dad's friends) when I was a kid. Many of them had been responsible for the death of hundreds or thousands of people. They had an ethic that allowed them to do this and not become monsters in their own minds; they came home as heroes.
I hope that the character in the video finds a tough and strong significant otter and has a happy life.
Jan, jog bra better than ace bandage (have done both)
That was one hell of a way for a woman to get a man out of her system. LOL!
Otherwise, I do not feel inclined to make a big deal out of it.
The armed service is called an armed SERVICE for a very clear as pure spring water reason.
I was drafted into the Marines, by the way.
Uncle Sam made me SERVE the Marines.
But once a Marine, always a Marine, they say.
I was just a supply clerk but I was still "a lean green killing machine" due to a shared training. Never killed anyone though.
Being honorably discharged with a meritorious promotion to corporal during just two years of service always looked good on a resume.
An acquired sense of duty SERVED me well (ha ha) when I joined the Alabama Department of Corrections eleven years later.
That academy in Selma was nothing compared to Parris Island.
Says nothing else and the training we used to get excluded officers appointed giving illegal orders or guilty of illegal acts especially violating that oath.
It says nothing about anybody or anything else.
The only question worth asking is when if ever is the military going to uphold it's oath? Which is exactly what Nancy Neapolitano was referring to when she said the US military and retirees were the greatest danger this government faced. while helping to build the protective echelon under the guise of Patriotism.
I know the oath is the same - so far - but for anything beyond that ask someone in the present day military.
Now there are those who take the oath along with another one about not lying, cheating, stealing or tolerating. Something that goes out the window when they pin on the gold bar unless that too has changed. If it hasn't they serve the God Mammon and themselves.