Why I fled libertarianism — and became a liberal
In a lot of ways, I can really relate to what this guy says. I myself also have a very low tolerance for most conspiracy theories (Operation Northwoods is really the only one that has any shred of credibility, primarily because it actually has official documentation to back it up), and I also share his abhorrence of the Tea Party (which, as far as I can tell, has an ideology virtually identical to that of the Ku Klux Klan). Yet in spite of that, I personally still consider myself a Libertarian, but it's probably my own unique, left-leaning brand of Libertarianism; very different from the radical, far-right fundamentalist extremism that the Teabaggers believe in.
It kind of makes me wonder... how many different “sub-parties” are there within the greater Libertarian party? The Libertarian party seems to be the go-to party for anyone who dislikes both Democrats and Republicans, which is actually a rather large percentage of the American people – they can't possibly all agree with each other. I suppose there is also the Constitution Party, which basically competes with Libertarianism, though it's not nearly as large.
Anyway, a big problem I noticed with this guy's argument is his claim that the lesson of the Great Depression was supposedly that government is supposed to help out during a catastrophic recession. But what he fails to realize is that the Great Depression would never have happened in the first place if the Federal Reserve didn't exist. I think G. Edward Griffin's book “The Creature from Jekyll Island” proves this point fairly well.
"The Creature from Jekyll Island," by G. Edward Griffin:
http://amzn.to/19mr04L
Like the author of the article, I also care about helping the poor and providing assistance for impoverished children, but I do have to question his assumption that government welfare is the only way to accomplish that. According to Ludwig von Mises, the best way to provide for the poor is through the free, unfettered capitalism that was advocated by Classical Liberalism, an ideology which is now unfortunately dead, having been replaced by Socialist Progressivism.
"Socialism - An Economic and Sociological Analysis," by Ludwig von Mises:
http://amzn.to/1hxz16B
The problem is not that the government is incompetent. Quite the contrary, the government is extremely competent. Rather, the problem is that the government simply doesn't care about its citizens. If it did, things might be very different. The simple fact of the matter is that a vast majority of politicians and bureaucrats – Democrats and Republicans alike – are only concerned with grabbing as much money for themselves and their friends as they possibly can. Serving the needs of the people is an auxiliary priority, if it is a priority at all. They are absolutely selfish, and I mean that according the traditional definition of the word, which means concern for yourself to the detriment of others, not Ayn Rand's custom definition which eliminates the “to the detriment of others” aspect (honestly, Ayn Rand should have just used the word “desire” instead – no unshakable negative connotations attached).
Now of course we need government, but its purpose should always be to protect us, never to provide for us (except for government employees). The task of providing for the entire population is simply too big to be handled by the government, and trying to do so cripples the economy, stripping people of their ability to provide for themselves, thus creating more poor people and increasing the size and cost of welfare programs. It's a destructive cycle that feeds into itself, and can only end in disaster. The correct solution is for the needs of the poor to be catered to through private charities, not government welfare.
Nevertheless, the author of the article does provide some good points to think about, even if he is only half-right.
It kind of makes me wonder... how many different “sub-parties” are there within the greater Libertarian party? The Libertarian party seems to be the go-to party for anyone who dislikes both Democrats and Republicans, which is actually a rather large percentage of the American people – they can't possibly all agree with each other. I suppose there is also the Constitution Party, which basically competes with Libertarianism, though it's not nearly as large.
Anyway, a big problem I noticed with this guy's argument is his claim that the lesson of the Great Depression was supposedly that government is supposed to help out during a catastrophic recession. But what he fails to realize is that the Great Depression would never have happened in the first place if the Federal Reserve didn't exist. I think G. Edward Griffin's book “The Creature from Jekyll Island” proves this point fairly well.
"The Creature from Jekyll Island," by G. Edward Griffin:
http://amzn.to/19mr04L
Like the author of the article, I also care about helping the poor and providing assistance for impoverished children, but I do have to question his assumption that government welfare is the only way to accomplish that. According to Ludwig von Mises, the best way to provide for the poor is through the free, unfettered capitalism that was advocated by Classical Liberalism, an ideology which is now unfortunately dead, having been replaced by Socialist Progressivism.
"Socialism - An Economic and Sociological Analysis," by Ludwig von Mises:
http://amzn.to/1hxz16B
The problem is not that the government is incompetent. Quite the contrary, the government is extremely competent. Rather, the problem is that the government simply doesn't care about its citizens. If it did, things might be very different. The simple fact of the matter is that a vast majority of politicians and bureaucrats – Democrats and Republicans alike – are only concerned with grabbing as much money for themselves and their friends as they possibly can. Serving the needs of the people is an auxiliary priority, if it is a priority at all. They are absolutely selfish, and I mean that according the traditional definition of the word, which means concern for yourself to the detriment of others, not Ayn Rand's custom definition which eliminates the “to the detriment of others” aspect (honestly, Ayn Rand should have just used the word “desire” instead – no unshakable negative connotations attached).
Now of course we need government, but its purpose should always be to protect us, never to provide for us (except for government employees). The task of providing for the entire population is simply too big to be handled by the government, and trying to do so cripples the economy, stripping people of their ability to provide for themselves, thus creating more poor people and increasing the size and cost of welfare programs. It's a destructive cycle that feeds into itself, and can only end in disaster. The correct solution is for the needs of the poor to be catered to through private charities, not government welfare.
Nevertheless, the author of the article does provide some good points to think about, even if he is only half-right.
I thought you were saying the Tea Party may have a slightly higher rate of bigotry, but pointing that out in a debate about Tea Party ideas is poisoning the well.
You're actually saying the Tea Party does not have a higher rate of bigotry.
I don't know know whether it has a higher rate of bigotry, but I think either way it's poisoning the well.
Sorry to all those I offended! ^_^;;;
finally-what is up with this tactic of restating my position incorrectly and then arguing the incorrect restatement? it is annoying in the extreme and not like you
The flack being shot in is from liberal progressives as well as establishment republicans and is solely to discredit. There are black and other minority Tea Party groups. The racist and homophobe labels seem to come primarily from the left as a result of a perceived or propagandized bias against Obama as an individual rather than against Obama's policies and actions. The homophobe and sexism tags come from the same group just to maintain legitimacy with what the left sees as core activist groups. Republican establishment voices seem satisfied with just throwing out tags such as nuts and whacko birds. They fear the loss of their careers and power positions.
the tea party is not filled with sexist, homophobic, etc(whatever else you want to accuse it of) individuals. those people do exist. They belong to all types of groups. There is not one shred of evidence you can provide that shows a disproportionate number of those kinds of people are attending tea party events or belong to a tea party group. and further-I can provide evidence to show that groups that denounce racism actually engage in racism and promote it. let's start with Louis Farrakhan. and move to sexists-supporters of Maureen Dowd.
you want to make a villian out of a group. check your premises. the tea party is dominated by individuals who want less govt and fair taxation. which means less taxation. they are not thumping the lectern about gay marriage, anti-woman, anti-minority, anti-gay. and to say otherwise is uninformed or purposefully misleading.
In other words, my even asking them to respond to hot button issues is distracting from the their point. I'm falling in to the trap of trying to ask everyone to be on one side or the other of the bi-partisan consensus that we accept growth in gov't and argue about social issues.
I'm going to start saying I support the Tea Party. If people say, "Yeah, but they believe in homophobia," I'll bring it back to their central message of less gov't.
Heard that years ago and it has worked for me. If a person shows that they deserve respect, I will give it. If not, then we have nothing to talk about. Race, sex and sexual preference don't really equal a spit in the river to me; if one is a good person with shared values, who isn't looking to control me or anyone else.
It does seem to me that anytime 'tolerance' comes up in a conversation; that the one who screams about it the loudest, is usually the most intolerant person in the room; racism as well. Oh, well. Life is full of the little ironies.
The latter part of your statement is something I can agree with, whole-heartedly and is a point many seem unable to voice with clarification.
If you're a 'moderate libertarian', then you're not a libertarian, you're something else. Why not spend a little brain energy deciding what you are?
As to 'libertarian nut jobs', maybe we just ought to come up with another party for all nuts - wait, we already have - they're called democrats, progressive liberals.
Posted by $ Maphesdus 1 day, 8 hours ago
I grew up in a predominantly conservative state, and I've never heard anyone around me in real life say the sort of blatantly fascist things he and dk have said, yet I have heard many Tea Partiers endorse similar beliefs."
Right there.You grew up in a conservative State where you didn't hear anyone say the sort of things I or dk have said... yet you HAVE heard such things from Tea Partiers... so, your State must have no Tea Partiers, or you would have heard someone say those kinds of things... or else Tea Partiers don't say those sort of things.
Can't have it both ways, maph. I won't let you.
Nice try, though.
I've advocated the FREEDOM to BE racist, homophiliac, xenophobic, or whatever else one wants to *believe*.
And defending the right of people to express their religious beliefs (even though they're the majority), adhering to the actual wording of the Constitution... this is not advocating the abolition of religious freedom.
“Golly, gee. I didn’t mean no harm”
The primary law being... "murder".
IIRC, there never was a federal law specifically prohibiting abortion.
okay, so I'm glad you support passing laws giving me the freedom to marry my chihuahua and to have an Obamacare-funded species reassignment surgery to make myself into a giraffe (cause I really feel I was born a giraffe trapped in a man's body...)
.
I find it interesting that you would single out abortion and homosexuality as the two causes you would champion. Abortion is the very rejection of the Declaration of Independence which states that all are "created equal" with respect to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." You can not deny that abortion compromises this very foundational right to life and by consequence liberty and pursuit of happiness. With all the contraceptive methods available, it is a complete farce to suggest that abortion is a necessary part of society. And abortion's biggest advocates have all been eugenists on top of that. Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood openly praised abortion as the tool to eliminate blacks, Hispanics, and anyone else she deemed racially inferior.
Homosexual "marriage" is the same way. It is a counterfeit of true marriage and doesn't even have the means to perpetuate society. Societies that embrace it embrace self-destruction by definition. And that aside from STD's...
I can see why you would reject both libertarianism and the TEA Party - they don't fit your ideals. The thing that I pity about liberals is that they are so internally conflicted that they have to go about stating how everyone else is wrong just to try to convince people to agree with them so as to assuage their consciences. There's a much easier way - stop fighting your conscience and consider that it might be trying to tell you something important: that if it bugs your conscience, its probably self-destructive for you and destructive to society on top of that.
PS - you do realize that Mephaesdus is a mythical devil/demon, right - one who intentionally wanted to spread death and chaos among mankind? Your choice of a moniker says all that needs to be said - and more.
H says ' war against..' If war is genocide then so would have been the North against the South.
H's use of the word genocide is correct to me tho' I may agree that the meaning has been widened recently by the progressivists to cover anything they do not like so it is now a useless word signifying outraged condemnation.
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