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Stopping the motor of the world

Posted by $ jbrenner 8 years, 11 months ago to The Gulch: General
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The link above includes fellow Gulcher David Kelley's interpretation intermixed with AS2.

Over the last couple of days on a different thread, I was in disagreement over whether or not John Galt ever committed sabotage. The failure of the interlocker just prior to "switching via lanterns" is an example of one case that I think, but cannot prove, was an act of sabotage.

Today I started looking at my AS2 DVD and saw the following:

Jeff Allen, recounting John Galt's walkout:

'I will put an end to this, once and for all,' he said. His voice was clear and without feeling. That was all he said and started to walk out. He walked down the length of the place, in the white light, not hurrying and not noticing any of us. Nobody moved to stop him. Gerald Starnes cried suddenly after him, 'How?' He turned and answered, 'I will stop the motor of the world.' Then he walked out.

Now I ask myself, and all of you, how could someone stop the motor of the world by only passively waiting for failure after failure? Many of them, such as the Amtrak debacle or the Taggart Tunnel, were caused by the errors of men. Some were due to lack of maintenance. The cause of some failures is intentionally left vague by Rand, however. The failing of multiple Cu wires in multiple places is an example.

D'Anconia blew up his own mines.
Rearden said he would blow up his own mills (but didn't) near the end of AS2.
Danneskjold resorted to piracy.

Why do people have a hard time accepting the possibility that Galt could have been "the destroyer". After all, he said he would stop the motor of the world. That is not passive.

Jeff Allen: "Maybe that's him, doing what he said. Stopping the motor of the world."

I don't think that lessens Galt at all in my mind.

I look forward to your insights.

SOURCE URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8IckAsGh1I


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    Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 8 years, 11 months ago
    He did not destroy the interlockers. Galt didn't need to destroy. He only had to withdraw the men/women capable of fixing the problem (or inventing something better) and wait for the system to start to fail on its own. Things break down. People can be lazy. People frequently lack training and skill. Bureaucrats who have never been in the field start dictating. Politicians have agendas that line their own pockets for further their own way of thinking (read Pendulum of Justice and Trails of Injustice. The real written as fiction). Things just fail for a myriad of reasons.
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    • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
      By that time in the decay of a society, it is reasonable to speculate as to whether sabotage and accidents might not be investigated all that thoroughly. In today's culture there would be a week's worth of white hot intense investigation, followed by the next accident.
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      • Posted by khalling 8 years, 11 months ago
        I wouldn 't say there would never be a reaon under which Galt might destroy property, but property and ownership are an important concept in the book. Wyatt doesn 't destroy a town he just burns his own oil fields.
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    • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
      The one thing I am probably most known for on my campus is teaching students failure mechanisms and how to prevent failures. The possible failure causes that are neglected invariably are those that wind up being the ones that bite you on the butt. Sabotage, particularly by recently fired employees, is a suprisingly common cause of such failures. Moreover, most systems have multiply redundant backups, particularly electrical systems like anything that would have been associated with Taggart Transcontinental.

      I knew I was going to be in disagreement with quite a few prominent Gulchers on this one.

      BTW, I did read Pendulum of Justice. I am planning on downloading Trails of Injustice later today onto my laptop that has the Kindle program on it.
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  • 11
    Posted by Temlakos 8 years, 11 months ago
    But John Galt was not passive. The one thing--the only thing--he absolutely needed to do, was to remove men of the mind from society. He did not have to commit sabotage.

    I just reviewed the "Their Brothers' Keepers" section. There was no sabotage on any of those copper wire breaks. The description of the first one made it plain: a soft rain weighted the cable down, and it snapped.

    Ragnar's privateering activities served a specific purpose: to recover loot. Francisco blew up his mines because he knew the looters could keep going forever with them. But John Galt knew an enterprise like Taggart Transcontinental would grind to a halt within a week as soon as Dagny left it. Ditto Rearden Steel, and we know how that worked out. (Francisco knew that, too; he it was who recruited Hank Rearden directly.)
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  • Posted by Technocracy 8 years, 11 months ago
    Direct sabotage was not needed.

    Simple entropy and average people will destroy any system.
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    • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 11 months ago
      That depends on how robustly the system is put together. I can't see Taggart Transcontinental breaking within a week after she left, unless the "average" public have become significantly less smart than they are today.
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      • Posted by Technocracy 8 years, 11 months ago
        True

        However only a completely closed system can be designed and created robustly enough to maintain itself with minimal to no correction.

        Neither a large company nor a country are closed systems. In open systems entropy and outside influences can destroy anything.

        Taggart Transcontinental was a designed system, and despite its reach was being monitored, some control exerted, and corrective actions made. If Dagny wasn't working to correct problems and improve the "system" that company would have been as moribund as any other.

        The robustness of Taggart Transcontinental was the legacy of her predecessors at the helm, both good and bad. Changes she makes would impact that either positively or negatively, In her case within AS her impact on Taggart Transcontinental was positive.

        But even with all her positive actions the system was still decaying, slowly sliding out of control. Removing the influence of Dagny is a major negative to the system's survivability, but when you couple that with all the workers that no longer perform at the level needed to maintain the status quo collapse is inevitable.

        The only question becomes how fast, and a major aspect of that is just how close to collapse the system is when the positive influence(s) are withdrawn. In AS, the answer to that was extremely close.

        Intelligence of the "average public" has little to do with it. Ethics, especially their work ethic, is far more important.

        People in a job that do the minimum they can get away with, that 'go along to get along' are a net negative, not a positive.
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  • Posted by heathernilsonphotography 8 years, 11 months ago
    Galt didn't need to sabotage specific railway technology. There is no ambiguity in the writing, as Rand described over and over again how technological systems simply break down when competent people were removed from the equation. Respectfully, to infer sabotage is to miss the full meaning of the basic theme of the story, which is mind on strike, and the resulting breakdown of civilisation as an inevitable result. Galt didn't need to sabotage any particular piece of technology, just as he didn't even bother to destroy his motor model. He just walked out of the 20th Century Motor Company, leaving it on a bench. Without him, it just sat there, rusting away, until Dagny and Rearden found it.
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  • Posted by Lucky 8 years, 11 months ago
    I have only read AS twice, but I think - no, Galt did not sabotage other than by convincing key people to 'shrug'.
    I agree with other comments here that it would be hard to justify respect for property rights while engaging in physical damage to property.

    The example of copper wire is interesting. When times are bad, criminals go after copper wire as it marketable.
    (Lead is another, re theft of old church roofing).
    They do not take care during removal not to damage the connected hardware.
    In AS this would certainly have been the case not just because of D'Anconia's copper mines being taken out.

    So, sabotage -yes. By Galt- no.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 11 months ago
    I do have to wonder, however, if in our day and age there are enough people who aren't the brilliant, but the "good enough" to enable things to keep going for quite a long time. No, I don't believe it was the removal of the brilliant to Galt's Gulch which resulted in the failures, but the overwhelming burden of government regulations that was the true downfall of civilization. It was the mechanizations of one great machine rather than the aggregate failures of many which ground the progress and productivity of society to a halt. Galt's actions merely sped up the decline.
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  • Posted by conscious1978 8 years, 11 months ago
    Galt didn't destroy the interlocker. Doing so would have been initiating force in manner that was not self-defense and in a context that could potentially have innocent victims. It would have been a huge contradiction in the story for Galt to commit indiscriminate acts of sabotage. The other heroes of AS were very careful who was impacted by their acts of destruction.
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  • Posted by DavidKelley 8 years, 11 months ago
    Thanks, jbrenner, for linking to my scene commentary, and for raising a really interesting question. Two thoughts in that regard.

    First, when Dagny meets Galt in Part III, she asks him about the Starnesville story:
    DAGNY: You told them that you would stop the motor of the world.
    GALT: I have.
    DAGNY: What have you done?
    GALT: I've done nothing, Miss Taggart. And that's the whole of my secret.
    I’ve always thought that Galt’s statement implies that he is letting the world collapse on its own once the best producers are removed.

    Second, the point that it couldn’t have happened that fast, or with relatively few people removed, Rand said something relevant in notes she made while writing Atlas:
    "Theme: What happens to the world when the prime movers go on strike.
    "This means: a picture of the world with its motor cut off. Show: what, how, why. The specific steps and incidents—in terms of persons, their spirits, motives, psychology, and actions—and, secondarily, proceeding from persons, in terms of history, society and the world.
    "… For the purpose of this story, I do not start by showing how the second-handers live on the prime movers in actual, everyday reality—nor do I start by showing a normal world…. I start with the fantastic premise of the prime movers going on strike. This is the heart and center of the novel…. I set out to show how desperately the world needs prime movers, and how viciously it treats them. And I show it on a hypothetical case—what happens to the world without them."
    [Journals of Ayn Rand, 390-93]

    Note Rand’s description of Galt’s strike as a “fantastic premise.” I think she used the word in the literal sense: “of or pertaining to a fantasy.” There are many fantastic aspects in the story. E.g.:
    * The small number of producers who are at the top of the pyramid of ability and without whom the economy cannot function;
    * The speed with which it happens: Galt’s strike begins 12 years before Dagny hears about Starnesville and has already had severe consequences; the story ends the next year and society has completely fallen apart. This is the literary equivalent of time-lapse photography.
    * Galt’s persuasiveness: A track-worker can walk into a corporate CEO’s office, without an appointment, and by sheer force of argument and personality convince him to abandon his company, his career, and even the world.

    The striking thing is that Rand tells the story in such a seamless, plausible way that all of this seems perfectly natural and realistic.
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    • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
      Well said, David.
      The speed with which the collapse happens is the hardest part for me, followed by the small number of producers without whom the economy cannot function. Perhaps I am looking at the situation with a filter too much geared toward today, but I find it hard to see such a sudden collapse happening today. I know that Communism fell quite quickly, but the economic underpinning there was paper thin. The multitude of sources from which one can buy things now makes such a collapse in an industrialized nation far less likely than it might have been in prior generations.
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      • Posted by DavidKelley 8 years, 11 months ago
        Thanks! The speed of the story--the time-lapse aspect--was something I thought about all the time when I was consulting on movie scripts. How to make it plausible to an audience today? In some ways, the tech revolution helped: What if Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Zuckerberg, Peter Thiel and a few others had disappeared 12 years ago (despite the fact that most of them are liberals :))? Fortunately, movie audiences are used to "the willing suspension of disbelief."

        I too was astounded by the swift collapse of communism. If only Ayn had been alive to see it....
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        • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
          The seemingly swift collapse of Communism was largely because Communist countries did not spend money that was made up out of thin air, as most of the industrialized countries do now. The frightening thing about the current economic systems of the US and Europe is that by printing ridiculous amounts of money, reality has been denied for sufficiently long that producers have no realistic expectation of a timeline for a return to reality. The entire society is predicated on a "willing suspension of disbelief". Ms. Rand nailed it in that respect.
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      • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 11 months ago
        Indeed, this is covered in "The Great Reckoning". A century ago, if some country decided to renege on its debts, the rest of the world would stop doing business with them, and they'd have to see the light and pay up. Today, that's no longer true. The US embargoed Cuba for doing exactly that, but nobody went along with us. Too many of the kind of producers that David Kelley lists below are effectively mercenaries, and will work for anyone who pays them, ignoring the fact that the employer is a deadbeat.

        What all this means for the real world is that a strike, as in AS, can only succeed if it's done against the entire world. And that means both that all (or nearly all) the important producers will need to be persuaded, *and* that all of them will need to somehow escape to places where they can safely "go Galt" and take their work products with them.
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      • Posted by jpellone 8 years, 11 months ago
        JB, I think you are not considering that the moochers outnumber the producers. There is a point when the system will collapse, and quite quickly, when the economy cannot support itself.

        We are pretty much there right now. More people on welfare, food stamps, extended unemployment, and every other freebie. By John removing the producers it just accelerated the demise.

        What would happen if tomorrow, all of the producers in the fortune 500 disappeared? Collapse would be swift and assured!!!
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        • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
          The moochers outnumber the producers by quite a large number, and we are pretty much there right now.

          The rate of disappearance of producers is pretty low.
          There are going to be more Dagnys and Reardens than those who go Galt quickly like Midas Mulligan. As long as Atlas Shrugged was when AR wrote it, if written today, it would be much longer.

          To collapse the economy today would take at least tens of thousands of producers going on strike, and probably hundreds of thousands. The economy is diverse over a global scale now. The Dagnys and Reardens would look for international suppliers.
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      • Posted by Technocracy 8 years, 11 months ago
        At the same time however, you have the population jump form ~130M in 1940 to the ~309M today, coupled with the higher looter/moocher ratio we also have today.

        That mitigates heavily against survival of the economy when the productive shrug.

        It also means a precipitous collapse when collapse comes.

        Absolute numbers of shruggers needed to undermine the system is much higher than in AS definitely.

        Lets call the small numbers she used, dramatic license. The principle is still true.

        edit to clarify - I'm using US numbers. Worldwide the ratio of appetite to production gets even worse
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        • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
          AS also presumes a very high percentage of producers being convinced by Galt. There will be more Dagnys and Reardens than those who shrug easily.
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          • Posted by Technocracy 8 years, 11 months ago
            True, very true.

            Reinforced by inertia of the known.

            Contrasting similarities to AS with differences like this is both entertaining and educational. Nothing like a good discussion to keep the mind alert.
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  • Posted by Riftsrunner 8 years, 11 months ago
    It would never be moral to sabotage other's property. That is what the looters and moochers do. They steal or destroy the methods of allowing people to prosper. When Reardon created a miracle metal, first they tried to sabotage it's acceptance. Then they tried to Co-opt it to make everyone equal. Then they tried to cut off his supplies of the needed components. And finally blackmailed him with his guilt to lay claim to it. If Galt used any of the methods employed by the moochers or looters, would make him no better than them and prove his morality false.
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    • Posted by InfamousEric 8 years, 11 months ago
      This is what I was thinking...

      D'Anconia blew up his own mines.
      Rearden, was speaking of his own mills.

      It seems to me that private property was a limit Galt would not cross.
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    • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 11 months ago
      I mostly agree. (Though in "The Fountainhead" AR does have Roark blow up a building, in which Roark has no property right, merely because it was originally built to Roark's design, and later modified in ways that horribly offended him as an artist. Apparently AR did not consider that an immoral act, but I do.)
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      • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
        Roark's blowing up of a building is a great example to explore in more detail. Because it was not owned by him, I do see such an act as immoral. However, I'm not sure I would have felt the same way in Galt's case because in some ways, Galt was waging his own little war.
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  • Posted by strugatsky 8 years, 11 months ago
    By committing sabotage, Galt, or us, would be losing the moral high ground. We can destroy what belongs to us, we can withhold from the looters that which is ours (ideas and knowledge, mostly), if possible, even take back that which was stolen (ex: Rourke), but if we destroy that which is not ours, how are we better? Besides, there is no need for that – the world does not run by itself; it needs people that are knowledgeable and capable of running it. Convincing those people that they should not gift their knowledge toward their own destruction – that is a different matter altogether.
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  • Posted by xthinker88 8 years, 11 months ago
    Well if you want to know how he would stop the motor of the world you could ask yourself what the motor of the world runs on?

    I believe the answer is clear - the human mind. Especially those great minds dedicated to productivity, creativity, and reason. So he set out to remove those minds from the world.

    I have to confess to not really understanding the question. It is kind of the theme of the entire book.
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  • Posted by XenokRoy 8 years, 11 months ago
    While John was largely passive the other two of the three that made it happen were aggressive and destructive. One used his reputation and their confidence in him to destroy billions and perhaps trillions of dollars from stock. The other a pirate. Today both would be called terrorists, On using finance and market manipulation as his weapon of choice and the other open terrorist acts.

    It is also true that the sons of liberty, at least for the first several years would be called terrorists in today's world as well. Let severe than either of these, many a British tax collector found themselves stripped, tarred and feathers for performing their role in British taxation. It is quite surprising that Thomas Paine was never arrested for sedition for printing many of the pamphlets he printed.

    In AS stopping the mortar of the world took three people. One who argued the logical and rational case to those that would hear it, and two that pushed the economy and social structure to the point where people became willing to listen in the first place.

    The same was true of the US revolutionary war. Without the press of Ben Franklin, the writing of Thomas Payne, and the retaliation of Samuel Adams and others who organized the sons of liberty it would not have occurred.

    To stop the current motor what we need is a planned approach, with specific mile markers along the way. I would prefer that it all be peaceful, but I am not sure it will ever succeed without some unrest occurring. I think there is plenty of that now and their will be more. Our side needs to learn to never let a crisis go to waste as the other side has.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 11 months ago
    Rand's vivid descriptions of what happens in a collectivist society lifts the veil of false rhetoric from our eyes and shows us what's really happening and how very close we are to the world of John Galt.
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  • Posted by slfisher 8 years, 11 months ago
    I never thought John committed sabotage other than encouraging people to quit. Doing that would have destroyed property that didn't belong to him, and would have been against his moral code. Hank could threaten to blow up his mills, because they were his. Francisco could blow up his mines, because they were his. Yes, Ragnar stole, and ISTR that John disapproved of that (also because it put Ragnar at risk). But as someone who respected personal property rights above all, I can't imagine him sabotaging property that belonged to someone else.
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  • Posted by coaldigger 8 years, 11 months ago
    I don't think that it matters whether Galt helped things along by some boyhood pranks (for his own amusement), in addition to his real job of removing the men of the minds. I am glad that Ayn Rand left this ambiguous and it would make him too mortal. At this point, I would cut all the wires I could if I thought it would help.
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  • Posted by Zero 8 years, 11 months ago
    All Rand's heroes behave with consummate morality.
    Francisco could destroy his mines because they were his to destroy.
    Ragnar stole from thieves.

    Galt could not have sabotaged Dagny's trains because they were not his nor were they ill-gotten.

    I don't believe she was ambiguous at all.
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  • Posted by kevinw 8 years, 11 months ago
    I agree with most of the comments here that Galt would not need to physically sabotage anything in order to cause the equipment failures. Although it would speed up the process of destruction, the theme of the story is that all that is needed is the removal of the competent for the incompetent to self destruct.

    What would happen to your classes if you were suddenly removed and there were no competent people to take your place?
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    • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
      As much as I would like to think I am not replaceable, I am. In fact, my success resulted in my university's decision to hire three more faculty. Between the three of them, especially after my mentoring them the last two years, they could replace me. They are all Gulch-worthy producers, and in some ways, more productive than I am. When I shrug completely, I will not worry at all that my legacy will disappear without me. This is part of my point in this entire thread. The economic foundation for free market capitalism in America is much more structurally sound (at least now) than was suggested in Atlas Shrugged.
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      • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 11 months ago
        I just wish that we had a medium of barter which
        would circumvent the tentacles of big brother, so
        that a virtual gulch could develop -- given transport
        methods which could also be bartered. . hmmmmm. -- j
        .
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        • Posted by Mamaemma 8 years, 11 months ago
          Black market, John. I have read that it is already substantial.
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          • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 11 months ago
            I love ebay, Emma -- just found a pair of "Elvis microphones"
            in Albion, Michigan which are in fabulous condition,
            for a fair price, one by bidding in ebay and the other
            by private deal with the seller. . the first was legit
            purchase, and the second -- gray market.

            we paid through paypal, though;; I need to find
            the barter market where I trade a clean copy of
            "It's A Beautiful Day" for a Shure SM57 mic.
            wonder how I get there ....... -- j
            .
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  • Posted by term2 8 years, 11 months ago
    I think it would depend on whether one was destroying something the government built through force. Taggart Transcontinental was so compromised in this regard with James Taggart at the helm that I would not be upset if John Galt did sabotage. It could be argued that Dagny was just partially helping the looters by keeping the railroad going. Actually, I feel bad whenever I make money trading with other people and then have to share it with the looters
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  • Posted by philosophercat 8 years, 11 months ago
    Ellis Wyatt left it as he found it. Most of the others just walked away. Galt took the ones who built their characters as they built their empires; one rational act at a time. The philosopher Robert Kane calls these self forming actions. You build your character as you build a factory on principles and both require constant work. The men and women of reason show them selves not only by their works but by their character. Its their character that lets them stand out as individuals and made them targets for Galt. Without them organizations crumble and the copper erodes with the soul. Remove the character and the lines fail, the engine stops, and we begin to rebuild character.
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 8 years, 11 months ago
    I find it interesting that we can see this in the disintergration of government subsidized programs which includes Amtrak. Also, we see the needier get needier so we see those people take to the streets to destroy and steal because of their twisted ideas on authority. It is happening on a african/american presidents watch. He needs to blame someone so the rich gets' taxed and the christians get persecuted. I know it's verbal right now,actions will come soon thats what Hitler did.
    In a way Galts Generator/Motor is partially to blame. The unit that he has running in the Gulch must have an antenna array hidden somewhere to draw atmosheric electrical charges, & electric power lines (magnetic fields generated by those lines will increase electrostatic charges in the air). Galts device was a technological advancement on Tesla's experiments. So, Galt inadvertently helped in the demise of the world.
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  • Posted by H6163741 8 years, 11 months ago
    I'm confused, too. It's a book of fiction, for goodness sakes. And it's 1,000+ pages as it is. Was Rand supposed to include thousands of producers or use 'real life' timing? (Although at this point, real time US is moving pretty fast toward destruction). Geez; she would have died before she finished writing it! Also, it is abundantly clear that John Galt simply removes the producers and leaves the looters to their own devices, which are pretty much non-existent. Sabotage?? That would be 100% against Galt's morality.
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    • Posted by khalling 8 years, 11 months ago
      In this case he does not, but would we say such acts were immoral during a war, for example?
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      • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
        You brought up the subject of war a few days ago, K. Now the reason becomes clearer. One could easily argue that Galt considered himself already part of a war, and that sabotage in that case could be justifiable. However, as numerous others have pointed out, it would be inconsistent with his own moral code. This is one reason that, while Galt personally disapproved of Ragnar's piracy, he did not shut it down. Ragnar's piracy was acceptable according to Ragnar's moral code, which differed slightly from John Galt's.
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      • Posted by $ 8 years, 11 months ago
        As early as Francisco's first meeting with Rearden, Francisco refers to what is occurring between looters and producers as a battle and gives Rearden intelligence as to the looters' and moochers' weapon.
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  • Posted by Sunjock13 8 years, 11 months ago
    He simply took away the duct tape and the band aides that we all provide the looters everyday!!! It is sometimes necessary to make things worse and let them senselessly fail, than to provide the heroics to extend the inevitable. Who is John Galt?
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  • Posted by wiggys 8 years, 11 months ago
    Ayn Rand pointed out what was taking place in the world that would, if left unchecked would be the cause of economically stopping the world. She has succeeded in showing what would happen over a period of time when the country was led by the government as we have come to know it. One man can not do it on his own as many believe 0 is in the process of doing. HHe has a great deal of help from all of the members of the congress. Also, what was this guys point?
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    • Posted by fosterj717 8 years, 11 months ago
      Unfortunately! This goes way beyond what Congress is capable of! It is an oligarchy that has been manipulating what is currently transpiring for almost 100 years. The Progressive movement is nothing new as is the effectiveness of the Fabian society. Both of which have been relentless in their pursuit culminating in what we are now experiencing. Obama is only a figurehead and by no means the brains behind this. He also has and has had willing co-conspirators across the political spectrum. This you can take to the bank!
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