Two cops gunned down over the weekend -- Where are the cries for their "Due Process?"

Posted by woodlema 9 years ago to Government
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We had quite the thread over Freddy Gray, a long term career criminal, and all the cries for his Due Process.
More and more FACTS are coming out, and the more we hear the more we find the cops really did not do anything wrong other than perhaps some procedural things.
Freddy DID have a warrant issued for him on 3/13/2015, and did have a court summons issues for him on 4/12/2015 the day he died.
BUT --- WHERE are the cries for the due process of the two police MURDERED over the weekend. Where are the cries of outrage over the 25 year old cop MURDERED in New York a week ago.
Why are we in the Gulch ONLY taking the side of the criminals and those who provide NO REAL VALUE!!!
Isn't a cornerstone of Objectivism the VALUE on has?
Where is the VALUE of criminals vs. the Police?
Before we start getting into surveillance, and all the other justifications for hating cops, the cops themselves to not pay for, contract or install this stuff. It is the people "WE" elect into office and "ALLOW" them to do these things.
I want to see how many of you actually care about these MURDERED COPS.


All Comments

  • Posted by Zenphamy 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    There's no implication, other than what you might want to add to it. It's a simple collection of the events and descriptions that fall within 'killed by gun by cop.' Its like the cop number, some 40 police have died on duty through 5/9, 10 of those buy gunshot, 1 of those 10 shot by his own partner.
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  • Posted by $ jdg 9 years ago
    An interesting follow-up case:
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/05/...

    The only obvious (to me) difference between this case and Garner's is that Tony Robinson wasn't black. But as a result, there probably won't be riots over it.

    I believe today's police will do these things to people of any color. But most white people don't yet feel threatened by it (and of course black people want us to believe the myth that it happens only to them). Sooner or later the masses will wake up, but it may happen too late if I'm right about Obama's intentions.
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  • Posted by $ Terrylutz3682 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    I don't agree with your conclusions. Compare police actions in areas of high and low crime. In low crime areas police are not aggressive because they feel more secure in carrying out their duties. In high crime areas the police expect the odds of trouble are high and therefore are more aggressive and feel less secure. You couldn't pay me enough to be a policeman in the inter cities. Also consider that in places with a high crime rate the police have more occasions to make a mistake. And all of us make mistakes. In violent neighborhoods the police have to use more force to maintain order.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    I have broken 4 bones in the past 5 years by
    falling or twisting or landing under a motorcycle.
    I'm just glad that one was not my spine. -- j

    p.s. retirement is Fun!!!
    .
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  • Posted by $ jdg 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Well, yes, but you've gotta admit the consequences are a lot less when they forget and put onions on your Whopper.
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  • Posted by 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    I am 5'11" 345 lbs. I bench press 350, leg press 1220, 62" chest and 48" waist, 22" neck.

    I can promise you that if I resisted it would take more than 4 cops using all their might force and tazers to take me down if I resisted.

    You can disbelieve in the force it took them to get Eric down all you want, but I spent several years bouncing in biker bars, and one thing I learned. NEVER underestimate ANYONE. ALWAYS assume they are tougher than you and fight like they are. Punch them 6" behind the back of their head and follow through, end it and end it fast and make absolutely sure your opponent is not able to get up when your done. That means if confronted, throat punch, sternum punch, broken floating rib, knee caps, broken bones call ambulance.

    I have watched too many "gentlemen" fights in bars, where the "good guy" fought with proverbial honor, only to have the other guy hit him in the back of the head with a beer bottle when he turned his back.

    Again after 30 arrests you would have thought Eric would have known the drill.
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  • Posted by $ jdg 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    This administration encourages thugs to resist police, but that doesn't mean it sides with the criminal when the cases go through the system. DOJ had no problem with the Ferguson cops who killed Brown (nor do I).

    I believe Obama is not at all interested in helping black people conduct a successful revolution or coup or anything like it. He just wants to provoke the attempt -- or better yet, an attempt he can blame on the Right or libertarians -- so that the public will stand still for martial law or something close to it. Why else would he still be giving local police all that military hardware, much of which even state National Guards haven't been allowed to have until very recently?
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  • Posted by $ jdg 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    I don't buy it. When you have four people restraining one opponent, so completely that he can't control his own breathing, even if the restraint is justified, those four people become responsible to keep him alive. He may have needed restraining but he was rendered harmless long before they needlessly let him die.
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  • Posted by 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    jdg, please take a factual look into Eric Garner.

    The Cop did violate protocol,a nd procedure, however, the cop was 5'10" Eric 6'4" 350 lbs and WAS resisting arrest, and he had been arrested 30 times over the previous year.

    Eric Garner should have known the drill and NOT resisted. I did see the video, and he was NOT going along quietly. I am not saying his "accidental" death was right, but it was NOT murder. Involuntary manslaughter maybe.
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  • Posted by $ jdg 9 years ago
    The black people involved in this struggle don't seem to care about whether the people they champion asked and/or deserved to be attacked or not. Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown, in particular, clearly attacked their opponents first and had to be killed in sheer self-defense. On the other hand, the police clearly did not need to kill Eric Garner, and it looks like they didn't need to kill Grey either.

    As for the cops killed in revenge, I see those as war casualties. I would prefer that that never happen, but when police are given immunity (or the prosecutors won't indict them because they're their friends) so that victims have no other way to get justice, I can't blame the killers.

    The bottom line has to be that we must expect cops to behave morally -- and that means not only refraining from corruption, but refusing to enforce unjust laws. Which means in practical terms you can't be a cop today and still be a decent human being. To cure this we will need much more than a crackdown on corruption; we will also need a massive and permanent purge of unjust laws from the books of all levels of government. And above all, we will need a complete removal of immunity from officials of any kind. The law can only have moral weight again when it spares no one.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Thanks for the other data!

    This is only interesting because of the perceived injustice. The number of people killed is really quite irrelevant.

    Still do think police have to forgo more scrutiny than others since they are those entrusted to enforce the freedom-limits the government has imposed.

    Also interesting that police officers are so liable for their official actions, while other more powerful and well-educated government officials are indemnified!
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  • Posted by 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    2013 = 32,719 deaths by car. 79X more than killed by cop, most of which I would wager were in the process of committing a crime.

    4500 Americans are Killed Crossing the Street Each Year. http://everybodywalk.org/4500-americans-...

    Here is the BIG one. You hate cops, and think they are bad. How about your well trained Doctor.

    In 1999, the Institute of Medicine published the famous “To Err Is Human” report, which dropped a bombshell on the medical community by reporting that up to 98,000 people a year die because of mistakes in hospitals.
    http://www.propublica.org/article/how-ma....

    You are 240 times MORE likely to DIE by medical malpractice, than by a Cop even IF 911 is called on you.

    Doctors spend upwards of 10 - 15 years on schools LEARNING their trade.

    Seems to me, that Cops not matter how you cut it, no matter how you slice it, do a DAMN good job.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    This statistic makes the whole discussion less interesting. More people die from car accidents in every state than this total.
    Further, how many of the 412 killed were in the process of trying to kill an police officer or other person?
    Although, I do believe this consequences is the tip of the iceberg for police overstepping their scope. Additionally, I find it interesting the very people wanting to take citizen's guns, also want the police to "behave".
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  • Posted by 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    It was SUPPOSED to have a bright orange plug, but it did not...That "safety" stuff was removed.

    Also if I recall, regular citizens had called 911 about a kid waving a gun around, so naturally the cops would HAVE to assume it was real.

    I know if I was responding to a 911 where people think a kid is brandishing a 9mm, my first assumption is it would be real not a toy.

    Next if I recall the kid acted, "according to reports" like he was doing a "fast draw" on the cops. Again, I would shot first ask question later too.
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  • Posted by autumnleaves 9 years ago
    I do not think a 12 year old with a real gun is harmless! I thought the kids gun had a bright orange plug in the end of the barrel. I could be wrong there as it is difficult getting a correct story from the news source. Also, the cop drove into the park, jumped out of his car and fired. No shots fired from the kid.
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  • Posted by 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Oh, I can clearly see they have absolutely NO single sided agenda they are pushing. Nice to see objectivity on that website.
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  • Posted by 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Implication of that is that, those 412 citizens were shot in the back or with their hands up?

    How many of those 412 were shot in self-defense, or during the commission of a crime?
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 9 years ago in reply to this comment.
    And let us not forget or excuse the 'good cop' that doesn't stop or report the 'bad apple cop' breaking the law or murdering.
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 9 years ago
    Here's a comment by one of my favorite commenters on Statism: (christophercantwell.com)

    "According to these conservatives, police are “just doing their job” and we shouldn’t hold them responsible if they violate their oaths at the command of the legislature. No decent person should defend himself against the gun grabber cop who confiscates his weapons and threatens him with years of imprisonment. The gun grabber cop is nothing more than the product of the gun grabber politician, he has no responsibility to disobey the unconstitutional and fundamentally unjust order to disarm the populace. The politician is evil, and so we should work really hard to vote him out of office in 2, 4, or 6 years, but the police officer who enforces the will of the politician, and cannot be voted out of his position, is unquestionably good and decent and should be praised no matter what.

    But then, if police are to be praised because they maintain order, yet forgiven as fundamentally not responsible for the bad laws they also enforce, isn’t there a bit of a contradiction here? If the cop is not responsible for the bad laws he enforces, then for what reason would we let him take credit for the good laws he enforces? Rape, murder, and robbery have all been illegal for as long as recorded history allows us to look back, as long as it wasn’t carried out by mere mortal civilians, that is. Even the politician can’t take credit for the prohibition on predation. So if we hold the politician responsible for bad laws, and the cop wholly unresponsible for enforcing those bad laws, then why hold the cop in praise for enforcing good laws which predated the existence of them both?

    Saying you disagree with a policy, then heaping praise on someone who enforces that policy on you at gunpoint, doesn’t seem like the most solid of moral platforms from which to preach. It actually seems quite treacherous. The average police officer will spend quite a small portion of his career actually stopping predation. The vast majority of it will be spent pursuing the war on drugs, petty traffic citations, and inflicting all manner of needless suffering on the populace at the behest of his political masters."

    And here's the death score for 2015 through 5/9/15: (killedbypolice.net)

    Cops -- 10
    Citizens -- 412
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years ago
    Due Process disappeared with the adoption of the Patriot Act. Who defines the terms. James Carville and Michael Moore
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