The Jade Helm Hysteria
Posted by xthinker88 9 years ago to News
This Jade Helm nonsense is paranoid hysteria. It would be hysterical if it weren’t so sad. I’ve posted the above article because I find it fairly well reasoned and reasonable – from an otherwise conspiracy site.
1. The military has always done large scale exercises in the U.S. Pre-WW2 there were famous maneuvers in Louisiana involving combined arms including armored forces. Was Patton practicing to invade the US? No, he was practicing to fight in Europe. It’s just that the Europeans would have objected vehemently to using their land as training ground.
2. Where else would they do them? And some of the primary missions of SOCOM are counter insurgency, insurgency, and direct action. The last two involve a high percentage of scenarios where personnel might find themselves stranded in hostile territory. So where should they train?
3. They have ongoing training exercises involving their insurgency mission as well. For decades they've run op Robin sage (I think it's called) in NC where the SF teams actually train locals to be guerrillas. Unlike in TX, where whackos seem to be coming out of the woodwork, the people in the Robin Sage AO actually enjoy participating in the exercise and some are “regulars”. Either playing the role of guerrilla trainees, informants, or noncombatants. Does this operation mean the US military is planning to conduct guerrilla warfare in the US?
4. I personally participated in a large exercise involving most of the east coast, divided into multiple hostile and friendly areas. For me, as a lowly LT, it ultimately involved spending a few uncomfortable nights in the swamps of Camp Lejeune kicking the USMC opfor’s butt (at least that’s how I remember it and I’m sticking to it. )
5. That brings me to one of the missions revealed in the map – the JOAX. Forced entry and seizure of a hostile airfield is one of the primary missions of the 82nd Airborne Division along with the 75th Ranger Regiment. It is regularly practiced as it would form the basis of entry into a hostile or less than friendly environment. It looks like a JOAX is explicitly located on this map. It looks to me like that black box that shows the area for it includes Lackland AFB and/or Randolph AFB. That’s what they do folks – they parachute in a “seize” an airfield – usually on an existing AFB or Army base. That’s called training.
6. When you are training to run operations over a wide geographical area (like Afghanistan, or the Middle East), at some point you need to practice running operations over a wide geographical area. I imagine that, for example, they will station the command elements in the blue areas on the map but need to run the operations in the red areas. There is no substitute for actual geographical distance when that is what you are training for. I suspect that a lot of this will be a “paper” exercise. Although those are now done through computer simulations. So, for example, there may be some operations (like the JOAX), or maybe a hostage rescue (the CRF event) that are carried out by actual forces against other active duty forces playing OPFOR. But there might also be a lot of simulated operations also being performed (airstrikes, other raids and conventional force deployments) that are only done on the computer. The goal of positioning command elements in remote places is to make the simulations appear as real as possible inside their operations centers.
7. I'm skeptical of the conspiracy folks for another huge reason. While I have argued on this site that rank and file soldiers and marines would be more than willing to follow order and fire on Americans depending on how those Americans are being portrayed, I do not think the same of special operations types. Of all the military, if it came to a crack down on us, I think special forces types would likely side with the patriots against the government. They are all smart and trained to operate independently. In addition, I know a bunch of Specops folks. I don’t know any that have any respect for Obama. Those on active duty cannot express it – but that doesn’t mean they are just going to follow orders and conduct a military takeover on his behalf either. Not just follow orders. It would be the everyday soldiers and marines that would follow orders and fire on Americans.
8. I have yet to see one conspiracy theorist that has proposed one plausible or even semi-realistic scenario as to how these troops could accomplish the alleged objectives of a military takeover. In addition, there aren't enough Specops types out there to conquer Texas. Especially when some significant number of them would go over to the side of the Texans.
9. A minor point but the fact that they put the 15 on the end of Jade Helm indicates to me that they've done jade helm exercises in previous years.
Alex Jones is the white Al Sharpton. And this is his Tawana Brawley. This gulch is dedicated to reason. Keep your wits about you folks and don’t give in to the hysteria. There are enough real threats to our liberty out there.
1. The military has always done large scale exercises in the U.S. Pre-WW2 there were famous maneuvers in Louisiana involving combined arms including armored forces. Was Patton practicing to invade the US? No, he was practicing to fight in Europe. It’s just that the Europeans would have objected vehemently to using their land as training ground.
2. Where else would they do them? And some of the primary missions of SOCOM are counter insurgency, insurgency, and direct action. The last two involve a high percentage of scenarios where personnel might find themselves stranded in hostile territory. So where should they train?
3. They have ongoing training exercises involving their insurgency mission as well. For decades they've run op Robin sage (I think it's called) in NC where the SF teams actually train locals to be guerrillas. Unlike in TX, where whackos seem to be coming out of the woodwork, the people in the Robin Sage AO actually enjoy participating in the exercise and some are “regulars”. Either playing the role of guerrilla trainees, informants, or noncombatants. Does this operation mean the US military is planning to conduct guerrilla warfare in the US?
4. I personally participated in a large exercise involving most of the east coast, divided into multiple hostile and friendly areas. For me, as a lowly LT, it ultimately involved spending a few uncomfortable nights in the swamps of Camp Lejeune kicking the USMC opfor’s butt (at least that’s how I remember it and I’m sticking to it. )
5. That brings me to one of the missions revealed in the map – the JOAX. Forced entry and seizure of a hostile airfield is one of the primary missions of the 82nd Airborne Division along with the 75th Ranger Regiment. It is regularly practiced as it would form the basis of entry into a hostile or less than friendly environment. It looks like a JOAX is explicitly located on this map. It looks to me like that black box that shows the area for it includes Lackland AFB and/or Randolph AFB. That’s what they do folks – they parachute in a “seize” an airfield – usually on an existing AFB or Army base. That’s called training.
6. When you are training to run operations over a wide geographical area (like Afghanistan, or the Middle East), at some point you need to practice running operations over a wide geographical area. I imagine that, for example, they will station the command elements in the blue areas on the map but need to run the operations in the red areas. There is no substitute for actual geographical distance when that is what you are training for. I suspect that a lot of this will be a “paper” exercise. Although those are now done through computer simulations. So, for example, there may be some operations (like the JOAX), or maybe a hostage rescue (the CRF event) that are carried out by actual forces against other active duty forces playing OPFOR. But there might also be a lot of simulated operations also being performed (airstrikes, other raids and conventional force deployments) that are only done on the computer. The goal of positioning command elements in remote places is to make the simulations appear as real as possible inside their operations centers.
7. I'm skeptical of the conspiracy folks for another huge reason. While I have argued on this site that rank and file soldiers and marines would be more than willing to follow order and fire on Americans depending on how those Americans are being portrayed, I do not think the same of special operations types. Of all the military, if it came to a crack down on us, I think special forces types would likely side with the patriots against the government. They are all smart and trained to operate independently. In addition, I know a bunch of Specops folks. I don’t know any that have any respect for Obama. Those on active duty cannot express it – but that doesn’t mean they are just going to follow orders and conduct a military takeover on his behalf either. Not just follow orders. It would be the everyday soldiers and marines that would follow orders and fire on Americans.
8. I have yet to see one conspiracy theorist that has proposed one plausible or even semi-realistic scenario as to how these troops could accomplish the alleged objectives of a military takeover. In addition, there aren't enough Specops types out there to conquer Texas. Especially when some significant number of them would go over to the side of the Texans.
9. A minor point but the fact that they put the 15 on the end of Jade Helm indicates to me that they've done jade helm exercises in previous years.
Alex Jones is the white Al Sharpton. And this is his Tawana Brawley. This gulch is dedicated to reason. Keep your wits about you folks and don’t give in to the hysteria. There are enough real threats to our liberty out there.
You posted this while I was working on this reply on khalling's post;
http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/2c...
In comparison, maybe I would buy into the conspiracy easier than I thought but I'm fighting it.
Do you think the timing for this type and scale of operation might be a little... umm.. odd?
I have read all of the comments prior to writing this and I'm wondering, considering how close the Bundy ranch was to disaster, how do they prepare for the real bullets that the Texans ( and everybody else) will be carrying. Especially with all the hype going on?
The Bundy Ranch was one nutjob away from bloodshed and that is just because that nut could not afford a bus ticket from New Mexico or Texas clear to Nevada.
Very reassuring. :) I am always a bit skeptical of Alex Jones since he often seems a bit over the top to me.
Regards,
O.A.
ANother way to think about it is as a crime. Motive, Opportunity, and Means.
Let's assume that Obama has the motive. I don't think the military people share it. But even if they did they have no opportunity. Opportunity in the event of something that drastic would have to probably be a series of really major events to provide the excuse for the takeover. That doesn't exist. Means - I don't think there are enough SF to take over Texas. Especially if they don't share the motive and don't participate or will actively work against the operation. So ultimately this conspiracy idea fails on all three counts - motive, opportunity, and means.
Disagree. Obama has stated his "motive," the fundamental transformation of the US; He has the "opportunity," being CIC of the armed forces; he has the "means," exemplified by the JH15 exercises. That paradigm is only looking for a "false flag" or other event to bring the motive, opportunity and means together.
Btw, you do realize that the reason they put the year on the exercise is to distinguish it from all the other years they have run the exercise?
https://truthernews.wordpress.com/2012/0...
That, btw, is the quality of the site you linked to. About a notch lower than infowars which is already out there in lala land.
Of course, at some point in this, ala Orson Welles, they would need to put in a disclaimer that this is part of the training exercise so please don't round up all your good ol' boys and go on a hunt for the evading soldiers.
I am somewhat flabbergasted that people in this gulch seem to buy into all of this hysteria. People allegedlydefending reason will buy into just about anything. Regardless of its inherent unreasonability , lack of evidence, and suspect reporting sources.
Next thing you know there will be a massive conversion of objectivists to scientology.
No argument satisfies a conspiracy theorist. It's a neurosis, really.
One thing about the diverse geography of the USA, we have training terrain for about any place the military could later engage an enemy.
To train in the Southwest to fight in the Middle East is almost a no-brainer.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/...
While it is easy to throw the "paranoid right winger" label, remember that over the last 100 years or so the Federal government has been moving into a position of total authority. The states now practically have to beg to get royal permission to do almost anything, because they have rules, laws, regulations, Executive Orders etc that have basically neutered everyone's rights. When you have an Executive Branch that has repeatedly abused its powers (look at how many Executive Orders have been issued, and I have no idea if there is anyplace you can find out for a fact) politicians who have consistently lied to get what THEY want (and YOU have to take, like ObamaCare), it is no wonder that people are going to question the slightest hint of something amiss and look under the rug, behind the TV for the bugs. Polticians have established a whole new norm for themselves, and responsibility to their constituents is NOT in it. MHO.
I recall war gaming similar situations back in the last century.I often wandered why the best trained were left out of the solution to 911. I now believe it was because they weren't seen as part of the solution to those who didn't let a good crisis go to waste.
My best guess is another huge crisis. I see in http://military.com the Generals are asking for more firepower in Europe due to recent actions out of Russia. i also see the shooters are losing their back up with different physical fitness requirements for the support units back in the rear somewhere.
Not looking good.
However they aren't ATF and not prone to shoot up a bunch of women and kids or college students. After all the oath is to the Constitution not to those who ignore it.
I worry more about those caught in the middle - part of the protective echelon but still loyal to the Constitution.
I actually thought initially that it might be a large scale counter insurgency exercise. Managing different command elements and logistics across a large area with a few non-virtual elements. But that author seems to think it is more of an E&E exercise combined with the JOAX training. I'm guessing the JOAX and CRF events both will happen on existing military bases. The locals won't even know anything happened unless they see the parachutes of the guys jumping into Lackland or wherever.
Actually I tried to do a better comparison of existing military bases in TX versus the map they provided and it looks like the JOAX area might be Ft Hood. That gives them over 200,000 acres to play in.
http://www.stonekettle.com/2015/05/jade-...
A: Practice, practice, practice.
That's how you get good at anything. Even military tactics. Every possible scenario, utilizing every combination of armament and troops. Anything else would be negligence. Any act, without irrefutable facts to back it up, can have any motive attached to it. The point is (Straightline) no matter what the operation is, it's better to be good at it in order to avoid fiascos. If, however, you are including the politicians who control the military, then the possibilities shift into the question of ; at what point does the military cease to obey orders if told to perform against their fellow citizens? In my time, (50s) there's no question they wouldn't obey, or for that matter, even be asked. I don't know about today's forces, but I'll bet on them doing the right thing.
Just as attacking Iraq was planned ahead, just waiting for a pretext, attacking Iran seems to be a foregone conclusion, no matter how wrong, misguided, stupid and self-defeating such a course would be.
Or maybe they just need to use up all that surplus military equipment they have lying around and keep our boys occupied.
Or maybe it's to prepare us civilians for getting used to the idea of martial law in case more cities follow Baltimore's example.
Or maybe it's to extend role playing to battle simulations in the real world.
All this really freaks me out. Enough already! I sat in Hungarian shelters as the Russians invaded Hungary in 1944. I sat in German bunkers as bombs fell in 1944. I rode my bike through tear gas in 1968 Washington DC. I sat in Shiraz, Iran, as the Islamic Revolution heated up in 1978-1979 and we expats were shipped out on 3 days' notice. Enough already! (I swear I didn't cause any of those!)
The hysteria of people has risen to a fevered pitch. It's pretty silly actually. Alex Jones must be laughing at night though.
Are they trying to cancel out the home ground advantage?
This IS a site dedicated to reason. So hopefully you were being satirical.
I am not sure what could happen, but the use of force against succession attempts from the feral(*federal*) government.
Are you not concerned about the militarized police? Efforts to destroy the 2nd amendment?
If they want to simulate urban warfare why not continue to use the simulated towns on bases like they use in preparation for foreign countries? What is really happening?
The intimidation tactics tried by BLM on behalf of senator Harry Reid and his son - efforts to steal the land needed for the creation of a private fortune in the solar panel production facilities deal with the Chinese.
I would like to shut my eyes and pretend it is just paranoia. But after false flags, similar to the Gulf of Tonkin that lead to American involvement in Vietnam, I like to listen to the official story and then try to find independent corroborating facts, if they have not been classified.
http://www.fayobserver.com/news/local/so...
They won't be able to keep someone from attacking them while trespassing. Makes training much more realistic.
I doubt that this is going to be a very sizeable force either. Some have mentioned 1200. But a ranger battalion and a battalion of the 82nd would already be more than that (for the JOAX). So maybe that is smaller in size. Either way, not a lot of people for the whole evasion exercise.
I once air assaulted into the airfield at Ft Knox to defeat some evil red forces situated in northern KY and OH. LOL. We seized the airfield and immediately branched out to the surrounding countryside to expand our hold and deny key terrain to the guerrillas. All of it took place on Ft. Knox.
1. The military has always done large scale exercises in the U.S. Pre-WW2 there were famous maneuvers in Louisiana involving combined arms including armored forces. Was Patton practicing to invade the US? No, he was practicing to fight in Europe. It’s just that the Europeans would have objected vehemently to using their land as training ground.
#1 - The Constitution only allows a standing Army for 2 years.
#2 - Really, what evidence do you have of that statement? Furthermore, if the exercises are not aimed at the American People, then who is the US's next target for invasion? And don't give me this BS "need to know" crap. Everyone needs to know regardless of the BS "National Security" excuses.
2. Where else would they do them? And some of the primary missions of SOCOM are counter insurgency, insurgency, and direct action. The last two involve a high percentage of scenarios where personnel might find themselves stranded in hostile territory. So where should they train?
Answer: Well # 1...have they not had enough training in Iraq and Afganistan over the past 10+ years? Duh! Otherwise, do it on Post. Ever heard of Posse Comitatus? NO MILITARY ON OUR STREETS PERIOD. NO EXCUSE!
3. They have ongoing training exercises involving their insurgency mission as well. For decades they've run op Robin sage (I think it's called) in NC where the SF teams actually train locals to be guerrillas. Unlike in TX, where whackos seem to be coming out of the woodwork, the people in the Robin Sage AO actually enjoy participating in the exercise and some are “regulars”. Either playing the role of guerrilla trainees, informants, or noncombatants. Does this operation mean the US military is planning to conduct guerrilla warfare in the US?
Answer: Oh really? You and the media know all about this? I've never heard of this and if you Dumb Asses in NC did not stop it you are guilty of treason for not protecting yourselves and your own people from military occupation. Why don't you talk about the Boston Martial Law that was a test in and of itself and the Dumbasses welcomed it not really understanding what was going on.
#3 thru #6 is BS
#7 - this is where the real rubber hits the road. You admit that the rank and file "would be more than willing to follow order and fire on Americans". It doesn't matter if Special Forces are involved. They're being taught the same thing. We learned that with the MIAC report a few years ago.
The rest of your post doesn't matter. Your "reasoning" cannot be substantiated at all.
If this is the quality of the people on this site, I need to look elsewhere.
1 - go read a history. Actually talk to somebody in the military.. Even join up. Evidence - let's see. I was an infantry officer in the Army. I did exercises like these. I've got hundreds of classmates from West Point that did exercises like this. Including several who are eitehr still in specops or are retired colonels in the green berets who have done exercises almost exactly like this one.
There is no need to know crap. You are the one making outrageous claims. The burden of proof is on you. Not me.
2. Are you really such an idiot? Posse Comitatus doesn't say what you think it says. Have you read it? Studied? Applied it? I have but I don't think you actually understand it. Because your statement has nothing to do with posse comitatus.
3. You are the only dumb ass. Robin Sage is well understood and talked about all the time. It's part of the basic Army special forces course. Do a little research for a change. And go to sources more credible than the national inquirer.
But you - with your massive experience - don't know about it - therefore it must not be. Really? And you are on a site dedicated to reason? Find another gulch.
3 - 6: Doesn't matter? ONe of the keystones of the conspiracy is the MAP. The map shows that there is a JOAX. I'm explaining what that is and why it's no big deal. And also why it looks like it's probably going to happen at Fort Hood based on the MAP.
Once again - you are the one making the outrageous claims. YOU have the burden of proof. And you have zero evidence. And you have no logic on your side. And you lack even a rudimentary knowledge and understanding of the military and military training.
7. - This is a special forces training exercise. Yes, it would seem to matter if they are involved. And the fact that rank and file would fire on Americans is irrelevant. They aren't even taking part in Jade Helm.
And Special Forces isn't taught the same things. That's why they are "special".
"If this is the quality of the people on this site, I need to look elsewhere." - PLEASE DO. GO HANG OUT IN A BUNKER WITH ALEX JONES. Because you don't know a damn thing about what you are talking about. And if you buy into this bullshit, then you are not demonstrating the level of reasoning skills that ought to be found in somebody in a gulch dedicated to Ayn Rand's work.