Ok then, strap one on and walk into DC. Let us know how it works out for you.

I agree with you on Constitutional Carry, but we must operate within the restrictions set by the law while using legal proceedings to strike down unconstitutional laws and our votes to elect people who agree with us, while working to win over John Q Public. I think the public can be won over. We are already seeing signs of this. Don’t get me wrong, I do not support ANY compromise on gun control. I want it all back including the laws around Class III firearms. I do not think that we will achieve this by taking actions that will feed into the stereotype perpetrated upon us by liberal politicians and the mainstream media. This is just an opinion though.

You took a thumbs down for that, but I pointed it back up. It is a fair question, albeit like "Who would take care of the poor?" I mean, in our public education systems and mass-mediated entertainment inundations, even advocates of freedom do not have the facts they need. We are all struggling here. Otherwise, "Atlas Shrugged" would never have been written.

Hey that seems uncalled for. How familiar are you with the field to make such a claim?

It was not my intention to appeal to his authority. I posted the article because in my opinion this is a rare admission from the police. And the poll is similarly interesting. I am surprised. the majority of the article is trying to refute the chief 's comments. I was curious about the 7% drop in violent crime but comparing to other cities show fluxuations between years of that amount. Not signifigant enough for a corollation between the two. I 'm not comparing the two chiefs just as I would not say one chief arrested for packing a loaded weapon makes a case for limiting cc.

Apparently, I missed my target. My point was not at all that TRAINED responder would have taken MORE innocent lives.
For statistics on crime rates see here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Stat...
You can sort the columns. Detroit's rate is three times that of NYC.
I will have more on this later. For now, see my reply to Dan8. The goal of security as a business is to prevent confrontations. Even winning one is an admission of failure.

Any confrontation is a failure mode. The difference between BUSINESS and GOVERNMENT is that business attempts to predict the future; government attempts to change the past. I will have more in response to your cogent questions. I do have a long and successful career as a technical writer. My experience in security is the result of an experiment that went well. I capitalize on my degrees and my work history.

Thanks.

He said something that resonated with you, so you hoisted him up; but an appeal to authority is not a citation of authority. The chief before him was arrested at Detroit Metro AIrport for packing a loaded handgun into his luggage. (See here - http://www.gunweek.com/2003/detroit1120....)
If Detroit is a failed welfare state, if the Detroit Free Press is a lying liberal rag, then why would you give credence to just another city employee? Granted, he does have impressive credentials. So did the previous guy.

Similarly, you cited from that article a poll of 15,000 police officers. But see stargeezer's comments about his low opinion of police. And that was just one out of many here about police misconduct. It is nice that they agree with you. But your argument needs factual and theoretical support, not just an appeal to authority.

I agree with your sentiment. I only find the matter somewhat complicated. I will post a link on that later.

I don't know what you do, but you should hire me.

With respects, buddy. I would not question a persons job choices, we don't trod in their shoes.

Mike - In 50 states (or will be as soon as IL develops some data) crime stats have dropped shortly after CC became the law of that state.

You said - "despite having a population that's less than one-tenth the size of the Big Apple, the Free Press reported" I'd love to see the documentation for that, why? because like most everything in that rag, there is none.

The fact that the NY police seem to hit everything except the target they are shooting at certainly proves they need more training. I guess you are trying to make the point that had there been some trained CC person there, that they would have shot that many more innocent people??? Illogical assumption that cannot be proved since NYers are banned from owning most guns and from carrying any - honest people that is - the criminals and the police still have theirs.

You discount the "apocryphal story of the 87-year old woman who shoots an intruder", but here is what you cannot discount - when granny got done, the intruder was on the floor, not her. I'd say that to that bad guy, the apocryphal nature of the story did not matter, he was too busy bleeding.

On your last point about your bravely (I'm NOT poking fun at this - not in the least) working as an unarmed guard, There is a saying in this state about the "Chicago way", missing the first step of bringing a knife to a gun fight just makes one a civilian in a uniform.
.

Makes no sense, both your logic and your job. First, with a BA in criminology one would think you could have a better job than security guard. Second a security guard without a weapon is not a security guard, just what do you do in a confrontation, blow a whistle?

Think I would have passed on Timor.

I'm guessing though that an awful lot of those 200K people would be vets. That's a lot of armed and experienced people to take on in an urban sprawl.

I heard a quote from Stefan Molyneux that goes along the lines of "if you're pro gun control you are not anti gun, because you'll need people with guns to take away the guns from others. Pro gun control is saying you prefer a small group of people to own all the guns."

OK, I am an AK resident and even though open carry is legal here I do not use it with town areas as marked for no hunting, to many rural areas to get my shooting in and game is plentiful when in season.

All that and more mirrors my experience too. I've been involved with training from FBI down to local cop of the block and small, one man towns. The sunny thing is that the higher up the food chain, the less likely the officers are to perform as expected. This does not include SWAT and other forces, their training may be outstanding to "here's your vest. Back when I was training troops in special tactics, they were eager and very easy to train compared to some FBI types I've instructed. They are FBI, so they know everything - until you prove they don't.

Was protecting two people, they were the target. Once offered a war correspondent's job in East Timor. Also, offered command of security platoon in Tashkent on the Silk Road. Have guns did travel.

Well, duh. Saved two lives one night plus my own against 3 man hit team armed with automatic weapons. Used a Win. .375 Model 94 with elk hand loads.

excellent points. I would suggest if you want the discussion to move back up the post-which it deserves to-give MM a thumbs up. He got dinged, so all of these arguments fall dead last in the post. just a thought, dr.

thanks

I think I've posted this before. But I love this language in the Pennsylvania state constitution.

The right of the citizens to bear arms in defence of themselves and the State shall not be questioned. Art. 1, § 21 (enacted 1790, art. IX, § 21).

This is a smart move finally -common sense here folks.

I live about 30 minutes north of Detroit, so we're right in the middle of all the Detroit news.

You'd be surprised what's happening in Detroit. It's full of Democrats, but they have to face the reality of what's happening around them. In short, they're acting like Conservatives, even though they believe all the stupid Liberal crap.

They're cutting budgets, facing down unions, and (I think) even trying to reduce taxes. It's pretty funny to see.