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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 1 month ago
    "John Galt’s speech is long and ponderous and many an Atlas Shrugged reader has skipped over this yawn-inducing section of the book."
    I liked the way she built up to the Galt speech and the Galt speech itself. I didn't find it boring in the slightest.
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    • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years ago
      I know that it is popular here in the Gulch to downvote CG, but here he got downvoted for paying AR a high compliment.
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      • Posted by Zenphamy 9 years ago
        I think if you go back through his pages of past comments that you will find serious contradictions re: the content and intent of Galt's speech. I suspect that might be the reason. I don't think it's because of any popularity.
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  • Posted by JoleneMartens1982 9 years, 1 month ago
    Oh ya and isn't churches and those who go to them, the biggest reason most are turning away from the christian message. They are the one's all over the media with molestation trials, begging for money, and separating families. What's the first thing you do when you go to church? You all go to a separate room. Ya that's a great family time event.
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  • Posted by rtsmith67 9 years, 1 month ago
    I get the feeling this "author" has only read the Cliff Notes version of Atlas Shrugged. If he had actually read Galt's speech, which he suggests he didn't and neither should anyone else bother, he would have found a very clear cut explaination of why Reason and Faith are mutually exclusive.
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    • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 1 month ago
      I don't know. I've read Galt's speech (with the entire book) and it's a patented disaster from a public speaking standpoint. I know that might sound like heresy to some here, but a good speech has to be clear, to the point, and not ramble. If it takes 40 pages to get through - it's too long for a speech. I've spoken in public enough times that you only have the attention of the audience for as long as their butts don't get sore. If you haven't made your point by then, you'll lose their interest. A good speechwriter could condense Galt's speech down to about five pages and it would be brilliant.
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      • Posted by $ jdg 9 years, 1 month ago
        The movie did a fantastic job of that.
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        • Posted by $ blarman 9 years ago
          Yes. And why? Because the screenwriters knew that there was no way in reality even fans of the movie were going to sit through the entire original. It takes about one minute to deliver one page of text to an audience. You would have had added at least a half hour to the length of the movie and lost much of your audience in that time.
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      • Posted by 9 years, 1 month ago
        it's your opinion. please remember that at the time Rand had no non-fiction. She developed her philosophy wile writing Atlas Shrugged. there is plenty of precedent for this. Voltaire in Candide, for example. almost all ancient greek authors. I can list a bunch of progs who have done it...but i won't
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        • Posted by $ blarman 9 years ago
          You confuse my criticism of the delivery for a criticism of the content.

          When there is time to sit down and study out a philosophy, an author has much more time to lay out their thoughts, order them, and back them up as you would in a scientific paper or a court case. Speeches don't work that way, however (which may explain why politicians are so universally short-sighted).

          Consider the following examples: Paul Ryan's budget explanation and Barack Obama's "Fundamental Transformation" speech. Ryan's budget explanation was fantastically presented - if you are an accountant at a board/bored meeting. To most Americans who watched that speech, it left them unmoved. Without passion, the speech gets forgotten and the speech quickly fades into the forgotten. Obama's speech is a conglomeration of liberal thinking and nonsense. The content is shoddy and so full of holes in reason and logic it's astounding. But it accomplished its goal: it got him elected. It stirred the passions of its listeners and galvanized them to action.

          Want a few examples of absolutely brilliant speeches? Lincoln's Gettysburg Address is one of them. It is one of the shortest public speeches in history (less than two pages long), yet it's simple language and structure have a depth of meaning and purpose rarely matched in any contemporary writing. Shakespeare's soliloquys (such as those by Hamlet, MacBeth, Juliet, etc.) are similarly remarkable for the same reasons. All that aside, however, there was a very good reason none of Shakespeare's speeches went on for 40+ pages: he knew his audience and the capacity of the human mind was best engaged by profound topics, simply explained.

          Galt's speech may work as a philosophy text, but it fails as a "speech". That's my only point. Speeches are short, sweet, and to the point. They engage the listener and impel them to action. Effective speeches are a maximum of 10-15 minutes long. Galt's speech goes on for nearly 40 _pages_ in the book. (A basic rule of thumb is that it takes about one minute to read one page of text.) That's an awfully long time to try and hold an audience's attention (and it's one of the reasons Obama's State of the Union speeches are such a disaster). Having sat through an average of three speeches per week for more than 30 years of my life, I can tell you that the biggest impediment to success in a speech is length and Galt's speech is certainly no exception.
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 9 years ago
    I have read Atlas Shrugged and seen It's a Won-
    derful Life, and I don't really agree with George
    Bailey's decision to sacrifice his ambition and stay
    there in that town for people who apparently didn't
    have enough sense to decide to maintain an in-
    dependent organization on their own. But to
    travesty Atlas Shrugged by deforming it and
    mixing it into a kind of hybridization with its
    opposite seems sickening to me.--I read Galt's
    speech before I read the rest of the book and
    it was far from "yawn-inducing" to me. But
    that's the kind of thing people would say who
    don't have any other argument to fall back on.
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  • Posted by Matcha 9 years ago
    John Galt's speech was not too long. Who would skip over it. Concerning Jesus one must get past the Bible. I don't think his representation in the Bible is all there is. If he did exist I think there is evidence he was a revolutionary. In The Book of Thomas he wasn't interested in saving all the lost sheep just the best one, his favorite. I think he would have liked AR.
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  • Posted by Ranter 9 years ago
    My point in my comments in this string is that the hard atheism of Ayn Rand (and many Objectivists) prevents "spreading the word." If we stress the political, economic and ethical aspects of Objectivism and ignore its assertions on religion and God, it is possible for dialogue between religious people (most of the world) and Objectivists (a minority so insignificant it rounds to zero) is possible. Objectivist ideas will never take hold without such dialogue.
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    • Posted by 9 years ago
      atheism has a definition. what's this "hard" "soft" stuff? Atheists do not acknowledge the existence of God. period. Their reasons are based in logic. There is no evidence. There is a long tradition-however, those roots are founded, co-opted through the superstitious times before the Enlightenment, where concepts such as faith were revered and people had to grasp for reasons to explain things in science they did not have knowledge of. I will say there is a very obnoxious set of atheists who are political and go out of their way to be divisive and uncivil. They are engaging in a belief system as opposed to simply rejecting certain concepts. There are few if any of those on this site to my knowledge. Most objectivists here are pretty patient in these discussions. Try another O forum and you'll see a big difference
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    • Posted by $ blarman 9 years ago
      Agreed, but that's something a handful of those on this forum seem to forget. They preach rabid atheism (despite a total lack of proof for such a position) and forget that you don't attract flies with vinegar. In my opinion, they'd be much better off to adopt agnosticism than atheism. Let those who want to worship God do so. By forcible excluding them, Objectivists are cutting off their best allies and best potential source of converts. 'Cause they certainly aren't going to be persuading Liberals any time soon.
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  • Posted by kyllacon 9 years, 1 month ago
    In my opinion it is eminently possible to combine objectivism and the the christian faith. I don't believe Jesus said follow me but leave your brains at home. Ayn Rand believed if an individual were self sufficient then they wouldn't want to rely on the meager pittence governments provide. The other side of that is, if you can't take care of yourself how will you be able to help others take care of themselves? The one lesson Jesus taught most purposfully overlooked by big government nany state progressives is "if you give a man a fish you feed him one meal but if you teach a man to fish you feed him for a lifetime". Big government progressives are in the business of handing out fish. The beneficiaries of the taxpayers are waiting to be handed their daily fish instead of going about the selfinterested business of earning their living through productive work which is exactly what the progressives want.
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  • Posted by Kittyhawk 9 years, 1 month ago
    What is the best way to "serve" one's fellow man? I would say that it is to produce value to the best of one's ability. Bringing value to the lives of your fellow man is the goal of both Christianity and Objectivism.

    In interpreting the Golden Rule, I have to ask myself, would I want someone to enable me in being non-productive and dependent? Of course not! If I'm temporarily down on my luck through no fault of my own, sure, lend me a hand. But I don't think the "altruism" that keeps someone down and relying on a handout would be approved under either philosophy, if they are appropriately applied.
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    • Posted by Maritimus 9 years, 1 month ago
      I would disagree that the goal of Objectivism is to "bring value to the lives of your fellow man". I think that it would be more correct to say that Objectivism teaches people how they themselves can increase value of their own lives.
      My perception is that in this and many other things the focus on the difference between individualism and collectivism is being lost.
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      • Posted by kyllacon 9 years, 1 month ago
        objectivism suggests an individual involved in the creation of values should be able to exchange those values honorably with other individuals for mutual benefit without government interference or oversight.
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    • Posted by kevinw 9 years, 1 month ago
      To accept that bringing value to the lives of your fellow man is the goal is a good way to find yourself chained to a production line or rationalizing the process of chaining others to said production line. It is not, and cannot be the goal of objectivism.
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  • Posted by 100inputs 9 years, 1 month ago
    Atlas is shrugging ... he got that right.
    Jesus is a cry baby, bleeding for the world .. he got that right too. And he sees the future- Atlas is in it. He certainly ins't making the point that Jesus stands alone, by bringing Atlas into the picture, and he openly admits it. So, his book is more like an implied pleading, with tears, for Atlas to stop and help Jesus(it's in the title). You know Atlas's reply ... F.U. And not because he won't stop to help an injured person. He knows it's Jesus and that the game it up. "F.U. Jesus". God it feels good saying that.
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