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Who Would Move to a Real Gulch?

Posted by LaissezFaire 9 years, 1 month ago to The Gulch: General
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Just curious, if there really were a secretive place similar to Galt's Gulch, free from government intervention, who would really move there? In my case, because the rest of my loved ones don't seek such a setting, I probably would not, although it is very applealing.


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  • Posted by Esceptico 9 years, 1 month ago
    The closest thing to a real Gultch is probably Simon Black's place in Chile. I love Chile and would go in heartbeat. But, and there is always a but, they really don't have anyplace to live on his ranch and you need to build a place, etc., etc., some where aroundthe area.
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    • Posted by ShruginArgentina 9 years, 1 month ago
      I moved to my present location five years ago with the express intention of "Going Galt" in Argentina. The move has been the best decision of my life (even better than moving to Park City, Utah in 1975 and to Sayulita, Nayarit, Mexico in 2000).

      If you would like a glimpse of where I am click on this link: http://baexpats.org/topic/31635-country-...

      For those who are not interested in reading all of the posts, there are more photos on page three of the thread.

      Just yesterday, my closest neighbor (our properties actually meet at one corner point) came to my house and told me he wanted to sell his property due to his age (over 75). He owns two hectares (approx 5 acres) with two houses and several outbuildings. The property is already 'divided into two separate parcels of one hectare each, but I am not sure if both of the houses are on the same parcel or there is one house one on each. I can do some research and provide additional details if anyone is interested.

      Before I moved here I thought of Argentina as a "socialist" country. In many ways it is, but in many ways I feel more free here than I did when I left the USA in 2000.

      I spent several hours yesterday filling in a depression in the back half of my property where water accumulates after heavy rains. This could have been considered a criminal act by the EPA in the USA.

      I have not had a single government official set foot on my property in the five years I have lived here and the Argentine government doesn't require me to buy an "approved" health care plan, either. Private health care here is very good and health insurance is affordable ($200 USD per for full coverage with zero deductible). I am surrounded by like minded individuals and families who have never read the writings of Ayn Rand, but several of them have seen Atlas Shrugged part I and part II on TV and are waiting to watch the final chapter. So am I.

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      • Posted by ShruginArgentina 9 years, 1 month ago
        I have posted additional information and several photos of the property my neighbor has for sale on page five of this thread:

        http://baexpats.org/topic/32636-is-there...

        I was able to confirm that the second house (not pictured) is located on the adjacent parcel of land, but it is very small and not in as good condition as the house in the photos.

        I search at least onece a month for "casa quintas" (residencial farms) in all of Argentina on the Re/Max Argentina website. My nieghbor's property is by far the "best buy" I have seen since I bought my own casa quinta five years ago after finding it on the ReMax website while I was still living in Ciudad Buenos Aires.

        What my neighbor's buildings lack in regards to their present condition is clearly offset by the size of the property for sale (20,000 square meters).

        At about $4.25 USD per meter2, the land is priced at less than half the price of undeveloped lots in the nearby village (1KM from the property).


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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 1 month ago
    I want to move to a Gulch in a few years and have started the planning process. PM me if you want in on the Gulch planning process.
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    • Posted by term2 9 years, 1 month ago
      Lots of planning required, and in fact may not be possible in today's NSA world. Better I think to hide in plain sight in a virtual gulch, where like minded people trade and socialize with each other without making it a big deal. One could trade with each other using silver coins or some alternative money. The book- Alongside Night deals with this, and its interesting reading.
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      • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 1 month ago
        A lot of the planning has already been done both in and out of the Producers Lounge.
        http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/d9...
        is the "open" version.
        There is also work going on offline.
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        • Posted by term2 9 years, 1 month ago
          The biggest challenge in my opinion would be to protect it if it were visible and successful and the socialist world around it was crumbling. Just the existence of wealth would attract the moochers to take it. I have been watching Venezuela closely to see how a society really crumbles and how the government there reacts. They just take whatever they can to keep their regime going another day. The Gulch would have to be really secret in order to wait out the complete collapse of the government.
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          • Posted by gerstj 9 years, 1 month ago
            Good comment. The Gulch would need to be totally secret (probably an impossibility) or able to defend itself against a sea of moochers and avaricious governments - maybe an improved version of Switzerland.
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            • Posted by term2 9 years, 1 month ago
              It could offer banking secrecy and a gold backed non-fiat currency where anyone could keep wealth for a price. To get a bank account there, you would have to deposit gold or silver, and it would be convertible to the local currency or back to gold upon demand. Eventually, there could be convertibility into fiat currencies if the depositors needed that, but I suspect most big nations with rapidly depreciating currencies would not want to deal with it.
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          • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 1 month ago
            I expect a very long wait for governmental collapse. That is one of the reasons that an island is preferable.
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            • Posted by term2 9 years, 1 month ago
              There are a lot of Dagny Taggarts out there still propping up our government, so I agree it will probably outlast me before it collapses. An Island somewhere of no real interest to the US, China, or Russia might work if it had at least some minimal resources
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  • Posted by $ puzzlelady 9 years, 1 month ago
    Not usually through my own choice, I have lived in over 60 places in my life. Many of those were part of a search for survival.

    In all of mankind's migrations to greener pastures, people tend to take their problems with them and find them infesting and recurring in the new places.

    If you find a place you really like for its natural treasures--food, water, climate, resources, technology--work at making its social and political climate safe and pleasant, too. Military enforcements are neither safe nor pleasant. They are not the mainstays of civilization.

    In today's world one can choose one's associates, not necessarily as physical neighbors but as online companions. It is not necessary to pile them all into one village. We can have philosophical and even business interactions at a distance.

    My current lifestyle lets me avoid government interference as much as possible, too small to be a nail to be hammered down. I have few needs and wants and have all the intellectual stimulation and good physical health I could want. So I don't feel a need to run away and hide out in some other idyllic locale, though I might like to visit there occasionally to enjoy kindred spirits, especially if you build the Gulch in the mountains.

    This virtual Gulch is really intellectual stimulation a-plenty, and not all of it pleasant. Sometimes it feels like walking through a beautiful valley with venomous snakes in the underbrush, ready to strike at seemingly no provocation.

    I respectfully submit that we work at turning the world at large into a more peaceful, productive and rewarding place. This is a very small globe, and it's running out of places to escape to. And such escape would be short-lived as long as the general hell keeps growing. Removing force, fraud and predation from human relationships is worth working at to reach an objectively happy co-existence, one without conflict of interest in an atmosphere of lively diversity and creative collaboration. Then we can truly reach for the stars.
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  • Posted by mdk2608 9 years, 1 month ago
    I would love to be in a real gulch. I suspect we would have a problem in that so many people would want to come in. All the producers and tax base would leave the real world just like the book. This would be a threat to other countries and ultimately man being man others would want to destroy it. We would need a means to defend the gulch.
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  • Posted by BradSnipes1 9 years, 1 month ago
    Without John Galt's machine, or it's equivalent, such a community would be impossible.
    Galt's Gulch required individuals to work at jobs other than what they are trained to do. I couldn't do that. I love engineering design and will always do that.
    A real Gulch should be a dedicated self-reliant community.
    I believe that such a community must be off-grid.
    It must have its own independent water system.
    It must grow it's own food.
    The liberal establishment is destroying our country. The economy will crash and the Grid will go down.
    If you do not live in such a community you may not endure.

    I have designed Solar Collector that concurrently produces both electricity and steam.
    It utilizes about 75% of available solar energy, converting 32% of the received energy to electricity and using 43% to produce steam.

    I have also designed a Multiple Effect Desalination unit that uses the steam product of the Bradford Collector to desalinate seawater or to distill polluted river water or brackish groundwater.

    I have also designed an energy and water system that will provide for all of the energy and water for an Off-Grid Independent Self-reliant community that a real Gulch must be.

    By minimizing the use of Uncle Sam's money you can reduce the effect that our corrupt government has on your lives.

    My designs will make it possible to create farmland in arid or desert regions.

    Please visit my website, www.texanhomeenergy.com or connect with me on LinkedIn

    I would love to be the "City Engineer" for a real Gulch Community.

    Unlike John Galt's machine my designs do not violate the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.
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  • Posted by Mamaemma 9 years, 1 month ago
    I would go. It would be easy, because the people who mean the most to me would want to go, too.
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    • Posted by DeanStriker 9 years, 1 month ago
      Between the two families merged into our lives, we have but 2 "maybes" of 8 offspring who "might" want to go too. From which I may surmise that you did a better job with yours!
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      • Posted by Mamaemma 9 years, 1 month ago
        Dean, there are only the 4 of us, so it was easier to expose my children to Rand. Also, if there's anything I've learned about raising children, it's that it's a crapshoot. You can do everything perfectly and they still turn out the way they are going to be.
        I can't imagine 8 children. I thought 2 was challenging!
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        • Posted by DeanStriker 9 years, 1 month ago
          In our case it's her 4 and my 4, a very long story. All long grown, gone and scattered all over the Southwest. Each of us have one who might get the message, but as we have little contact, we aren't sure. Our home is our Gulch, and has room for some allies when the SHTF, or even now.
          hmmm, I recall that I send all 4 of mine a copy of Atlas Shrugged, but none of them even acknowledged. It's not a pretty picture with them!
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          • Posted by Mamaemma 9 years, 1 month ago
            Dean, I lucked out in that Fountainhead was on their summer reading list in junior high, and I convinced them, hey! You can fulfill your whole summer requirements just by reading one book!
            As for so many of us, once you've read one of her books, you're hooked.
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            • Posted by DeanStriker 9 years, 1 month ago
              My first was Fountainhead. Then I got hold of Atlas Shrugged, in 1963, read it 3 times, and it's been my "bible" ever afterward!

              I do believe that Ayn's rants about god and religion brought disfavor heavily upon her work. While I also detest relying upon blind faith, Ayn would have been wiser to not attack so vehemently. Not that she was wrong, but it was lousy PR!
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  • Posted by waytodude 9 years, 1 month ago
    My view is we can make our own gulch. I person quit my job in the city purchased a small ranch 26 miles from neatest gallon of milk and tried to become self sufficient.
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  • Posted by DeanStriker 9 years, 1 month ago
    We won't be moving to any Gulch, as we have already chosen our own, and here we make stand, as best we can under the thumb of the current "system". While we love the Gulch concept of autonomy and true liberty, it will never happen -- because most people unthinkingly believe they *must* be governed.

    We have our own Gulch on which we've been working for some years, living in a remote community in which (not all, but...) our "true" friends share the concept. Our homestead consists of our land and home which we will defend to our end. No, it's not the greatest, but we reside where we choose, and we continue to make it better.

    Everyone either cannot move or be willing to move, to some place not of our own choosing, merely to be with a huge horde of other people, even *if* they share the commonality of Liberty.
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  • Posted by barwick11 9 years, 1 month ago
    Honestly, you know what would be an incredibly awesome idea?

    Detroit is freaking bankrupt. Completely and utterly bankrupt in every way (financially and morally).

    Detroit owns Belle Isle. Detroit could use some cash. Belle Isle is in the middle of the Detroit River, smack dab between mainland Michigan and Canada (like 1/2 mile from each, not exactly far).

    Buy Belle Isle for a ridiculous sum of money. It's already only served by bridge, restrict bridge access to a train open for public use. Found the City-State of Belle Isle, run it as a free nation.

    It's seriously an idea someone has floated, but the cronies in Detroit rejected:
    http://www.commonwealthofbelleisle.com/

    In all honesty, there's quite a few "islands" that would be ideal for something like this. On the other mouth of Lake St Clair, in the St. Clair River, you have the inhabited Harsens Island (sparsely inhabited, mainly a swamp), which is MUCH larger, and near a more rural part of Michigan, even though it's only about 15-20 miles by boat from Belle Isle. You also have Walpole Island that belongs to Canada, even less populated and larger. And there's a few others nearby.

    Likely there's plenty of islands like this that would be ideal opportunities. I mean, offer the City of Detroit $2 billion. That's the ENTIRE BUDGET of the City of Detroit for one full year. All for a 1.5 square mile "mostly-unused-unless-you're-homeless-or-a-dealer" park.
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  • Posted by zeezabob 9 years, 1 month ago
    I think a floating city would be most talealistic and ideal. Solar and abound and water already available. Add technology and shuttles to ports, what more could anyone want. I incision a floating oil rig size vessel. Maybe multiples, thus joining together or solo travel. Each could be set to self sustain its own communities.

    Maybe I've said too much.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 1 month ago
      The oil platform I found in a quick search is about 200x300 feet = 60,000 sq ft. If 50k sq ft is developed with 5-story structures, that's 250k sqft. If every man/woman/child gets 500 sq ft total for work, play, and residence, that's big enough for 500 people.

      That seems nice but if it works they're gonna need a bigger boat.
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  • Posted by Eyecu2 9 years, 1 month ago
    In many ways because of loved ones who don't seek such a setting. That could be a motivating factor to move there all the sooner.
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