Our military is massive and (IMHO) entirely capable of dominating a few rogue states. One would think the remaining states would rise up against such a use of military assets against "our own", but I don't doubt that the government would go to extremes to prevent secession by revolution. It might actually be a a promising way to strike down tyranny in government, but in the meantime, American lives would be lost at the hands of fellow Americans. Maybe that is what it will take.

If we must tax ourselves use the Fair Tax. Zero IRS, zero personal and corporate taxes including Payroll taxes for ss etc. Retail items have 22% federal taxes imbedded in them. The Fair Tax eliminates this and replaces it with a 23% tax at the retail level. The retail item is still sold at the same price but the tax is collected at the retail level. It is neither an increase or a decrease of taxes. Consider that all manufactured goods would now have a 22% cost advantage for export with the corporate tax eliminated. Our exports would bloom. When the top 400 foreign companies were asked what effect the Fair Tax would have on them 240 said that they would build their next plant here and the remaining 160 said that they would move their corporate headquarters here. With no tax advantages for congress to favor one company over another with political favors lobbyists would not be needed, they would be out of business. Power would be returned to the people. As a plus when the people would see how much they were paying in taxes they might just demand a decrease in spending. Also to protect the poor a monthly refund would be set up for taxes collected below the poverty line of $26000. A family of four would receive a check from the government for about $550 a month. Even with this the taxes collected would be greater than the current method of the way we do it now. This would cease the payments to CPA's and accountants of $450 billion to prepare our taxes, a real stimulus. Joe Six pack would have more money in his paycheck as he would no longer have federal income taxes taken out or the payroll taxes taken out resulting in more take home pay. When Joe Six Pack discovers this he will be furious. The Fair Tax would cause an economic tidal wave for our country resulting in higher employment and as a result more taxes collected to pay down our debt.

"Vilified"?

Do you know anyone who doesn't keep the bulk of their savings in a bank or brokerage (yes, per capita personal savings are pathetically small these days due to [insert entitlement name here]). Do you recognize that businesses borrow these funds for capital investment and growth?

Yes, the government bailed out banks that should have been allowed to fail, and continues to buy assets through the Fed to keep banks solvent by giving them the (out-of-thin-air) cash to continue to lend at artificially low interest rates. This IS bad government policy that must be corrected.

But what does any of that have to do with the reality that banks facilitate commerce and are vital to our economy? As far as I know, checks are written and cashed by individuals and businesses every day, credit and debit cards function reliably, and there is no significant fear of villainous bankers running off with our money.

If individuals choose to get into vast amounts of personal debt and fall prey to predatory lenders, I can see how they might hold a grudge, but there are sickening numbers of debt restructuring programs out there, and there is always the option of bankruptcy.

What, exactly, is this "social revolution" to which you refer? Is it some disparate, loosely-linked band of liberals looking for random entitlements and blaming banks for not getting them?

I thought the proper (read popular) version of history indicated that they had no constitutional basis to secede, and therefore, did not.

Imagine the per capita debt that would be left to the remaining states if a significant number of states successfully seceded today. Not to mention the overwhelming military assets that would remain under the control of the states that remained!

I do think secession should be a serious threat made by any and all states that find the federal government to be overreaching its constitutional authority, but I don't really think that any states truly have the guts (or the military assets) to back the threat. Am I wrong in this line of reasoning?

Actually, that's exactly what I had in mind: another War Between the States.

I tried to "thumbs up" again, but it didn't work, so I thought I'd express my intent with this comment.

Can I say "Amen" to this?

This is the point where I indicate that I was a military brat and I still don't get intolerance wrapped in tolerance wrapped in intolerance wrapped in... What was I saying?

This fire is too hot, so I'll just back away a bit.

(Thumbs back up for "A good merchant does not argue religion with his client")

The Gulch has become a very 'strange' place in the last month, or two. One reason that I 'bite' my tongue, and refrain from jumping into the fray.

Maybe we need to define our border...and erect a 'fence'? ;-)

I am not interested in hanging you, just in seeing you leave. Go about your "business" (if that is what you choose to call it) somewhere else. Do you know Stormfront? They might welcome you.

Bankers are the ultimate heroes of the capitalist revolution. (Thumbs down vote for your incorrect assessment of financial reality.)

No, Commander, your anti-Semitic anti-capitalist racism has no place in the Gulch as far as I am concerned. If you have a philosophical problem with Moses and monotheism, that is fine, but bankers of all kinds - even Christians, Muslims, and Jews,... to say nothing of Mormons, Jains, and Druse - are inherently good people,albeit they harbor religionist contradictions in their personal philosophies. As Ernst Samhaber said: "A good merchant does not argue religion with his client."

The door OUT of the Gulch is that way --->

Thumbs down on the anti-Jewish opinions. You have no business here in Galt's Gulch. Sure, if you want to attack monotheism and Moses, that is intellectually verifiable, but the "Jewish bankers" nonsense is just ignorant. Find yourself some other place to wallow in your hatred.

I cannot spell nkthas but thanx anyway!!!

Evey president since Nixon have gone and bowed to them. Because the bankers run the world and we owe them tons of bucks.

I cannot spell Isarel. He went about 6 to 8 months ago. Read it on www.whatreallyhappened.com

Regardless of Rand Paul's motive, the only reason a collectivist would vote for a proposal like this is to entice Atlantis into a continuing trade relationship, while remaining unwilling to discard the basic moral premise of collectivism.

The point might be: see how many people migrate to these zones.

What is happening instead is that States like Texas are turning themselves into economic freedom zones--of a sort--and encouraging immigration from State to State. But to do the job properly, they're going to have to secede from the Union and risk another civil war. Think Admiral Ragnar Danneskjöld, Commander of the Free Texas Sea Militia. Or simply "The Boz," like Jean Lafitte but without the depredation against private vessels or property.

Maybe his wife will change her mind...

Can you cite an article or 2? All I've been able to find is references to attempts to repair prior damage, and cutting assistance to Egypt and the Palestinian Authority... I have no problem with cutting foreign aid and the taxes collected for it. It's a step in the right direction. What am I missing?

That is the only real explanation that I can come up with as well. The problem is that it is still government "tinkering" with the market, and, adding insult to injury, it is fundamentally indistinguishable from wealth redistribution. I "feel" (whoa oh oh) betrayed.

Just where is jewland? And can you prove
Paul went there?

I think that he's trying to pick a battle he thinks he can win - just trying to get a foot in the door. Collectivists in politics (on both sides of the aisle) would never pass an all-encompassing policy like this. Using the idea of economic depression as a pretext to justify this is a great idea because it might actually stand a chance at getting enacted. When it works, then there will be some leverage to spread the "program" to other areas later on.

In our political climate, ANY advancement toward liberty should be considered a victory.