Atheists Barred from Office, Jury Duty

Posted by $ MikeMarotta 10 years, 4 months ago to Politics
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We all know that the U.S. Constitution guarantees freedom of religion in the Bill of Rights, Amendment I. Moreover, Article VI specifies that "... no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." That being so, it remains that these provisions were not incorporated to the states. States could and did require a belief in God in order to hold office, to serve on a jury, and to vote.

Those were largely overturned in 1961 in the case of U.S. Supreme Court case of Torcaso v. Watkins (1961). However, in 1992, Herb Silverman of Charleston, South Carolina, had to bring a suit to his state's supreme court when he was denied a notary public office for his atheism. Even more recently, in Asheville, North Carolina, in 2009, City Councilman Cecil Bothwell was threatened with a suit that never materialized because that state's constitution also requires a belief in God in order to hold office. It is famous that in 2002, President George Bush said that atheists were not patriots and should not be considered citizens.

After the War of Secession, in order to be readmitted to the Union, the southern states wrote new constitutions. They modeled theirs after Pennsylvania and Massachusetts, both of which included religious tests for public office.

Arkansas State Constitution, Article 19 Section 1 ("Miscellaneous Provisions"): "No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any court."

Maryland's Declaration of Rights, Article 36: "... nor shall any person, otherwise competent, be deemed incompetent as a witness, or juror, on account of his religious belief; provided, he believes in the existence of God, and that under His dispensation such person will be held morally accountable for his acts, and be rewarded or punished therefore either in this world or in the world to come."

Mississippi State Constitution. Article 14 ("General Provisions"), Section 265: "No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office in this state."

North Carolina's State Constitution, Article 6 Section 8: "Disqualifications of office. The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God." (This provision from the 1868 constitution was carried into the new constitution of 1971, despite the SCOTUS case of Torcaso v. Watkins cited above.)

Pennsylvania's State Constitution, Article 1 Section 4: "No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust or profit under this Commonwealth."

South Carolina's State Constitution, Article 4 Section 2: ""No person shall be eligible to the office of Governor who denies the existence of the Supreme Being; ..."

Tennessee's State Constitution, Article 9 Section 2: "No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state."

Texas' State Constitution, Article 1 Section 4: "No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being."

Massachusetts is a special case in point. The original state constitution of 1780 and the new constitution of 1839 both contained numerous references to religion. Massachusetts collected taxes for the Congregational Church until 1839. After that, local governments were encouraged by the law to do so on their own.

Massachusetts Constitution of 1780
Article II. It is the right as well as the duty of all men in society, publicly and at stated seasons, to worship the Supreme Being, the great Creator and Preserver of the universe. And no subject shall be hurt, molested, or restrained, in his person, liberty, or estate, for worshipping God in the manner and season most agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience, or for his religious profession or sentiments, provided he doth not disturb the public peace or obstruct others in their religious worship.

Massachusetts Constitution of 1839
Article II. It is the right as well as the duty of all men in society, publicly, and at stated seasons to worship the Supreme Being...

Article III. As the happiness of a people, and the good order and preservation of civil government, essentially depend upon piety, religion and morality; and as these cannot be generally diffused through a community, but by the institution of the public worship of God, and of public instructions in piety, religion and morality: Therefore, to promote their happiness and to secure the good order and preservation of their government, the people of this commonwealth have a right to invest their legislature with power to authorize and require, and the legislature shall, from time to time, authorize and require, the several towns, parishes, precincts, and other bodies politic, or religious societies, to make suitable provision, at their own expense, for the institution of the public worship of God, and for the support and maintenance of public Protestant teachers of piety, religion and morality, in all cases where such provision shall not be made voluntarily.

Chapter VI.
OATHS AND SUBSCRIPTIONS; INCOMPATIBILITY OF AND EXCLUSION FROM OFFICES; PECUNIARY QUALIFICATIONS; COMMISSIONS; WRITS; CONFIRMATION OF LAWS; HABEAS CORPUS; THE ENACTING STYLE; CONTINUANCE OF OFFICERS; PROVISION FOR A FUTURE REVISAL OF THE CONSTITUTION, ETC.

Article I. [Any person chosen governor, lieutenant governor, councillor, senator or representative, and accepting the trust, shall before he proceed to execute the duties of his place or office, make and subscribe the following declaration, viz.--

"I, A. B., do declare, that I believe the Christian religion, ... "

It is important to trace the path Roy Torcaso took to get his case to the Supreme Court. After being appointed, he was disqualified for atheism. He took his suit to a circuit court which refused to hear it. The state supreme court held that he was not required to believe in God and that he also was not required to hold office, so, no rights were lost: "The petitioner is not compelled to believe or disbelieve, under threat of punishment or other compulsion. True, unless he makes the declaration of belief, he cannot hold public office in Maryland, but he is not compelled to hold office." The Supreme Court of the United States did not agree. But thirty years later, Herb Silverman was in front of the South Carolina supreme court on the same issue.


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  • Posted by stadler178 10 years, 4 months ago
    Seriously? Maybe I need to utilize this clause to get out of jury duty. The irony of it all is that we should logically want politicians and jurors to be as unbiased as possible. Wouldn't particular religious beliefs present serious problems in making decisions that will affect everyone, of all faiths and of no faiths?

    Religion has pretty typically been all for denying rights to certain groups, treating women as second-class citizens, treating gays as pariahs, and promoting intolerance in one form or another towards other religions. These are all things that if anything work against the freedoms that are supposed to be of prime importance in America.

    But it's ironic as well. It requires politicians to be Machiavellian in order to get into office (which they have to be anyway), to pretend to be religious in some way even if they really aren't. So we've pretty much confirmed one thing that politicians are essentially required to lie about. Is this a sound basis for putting in place rational, proper leadership?

    Maybe this is the sort of thing that really needs to be codified: People should have the freedom to believe as they wish, whether in God or not, so far as said freedom of belief does not endanger the freedoms or lives of others. If you believe God's going to kill me for my sins, that's fine, so long as you don't believe he's using you as his angel of judgment or whatever.

    We haven't come very far as a society if we're still relying upon millennia-old beliefs to keep us from descending into moral chaos and evil. We should be able to reason about things well enough to come up with morally sound decisions on our own.

    At its core, all of this goes to show that in general, people are still uncomfortable asking hard questions about some very important issues. That does not bode well for the future.
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  • Posted by geneligman 10 years, 4 months ago
    There is no group of people on earth quite as widely reviled as atheists. Why? Because they declare that the emperor has no clothes. Atheists represent an attack on an entire way of life for most people who currently exists. What is that way of life? It is one of mysticism....mysticism of many types, whether it be religion, superstition, agnosticism, or belief in the collective (which includes the state). By declaring oneself as an atheist, one declares that the entire basis of the mystic is fraudulent, as it is. Because each person who is engaging in evasion, which is necessary to hold contradictions such as mysticism, they have a deep seated doubt and guilt about what they believe. Indeed, that is why many spend so much time trying to convert others to their beliefs. It is because it lends moral sanction to those beliefs. The moral sanction of numbers. Thus, the atheist must be stamped out, before he can gain a wide enough audience to pull the rug out from under the mystic.
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  • Posted by peterchunt 10 years, 4 months ago
    I have been an atheist my whole life. However atheism is just a byproduct of my philosophy, and not that important to me. What is important is my ethics and morale character. I believe Ayn said that she believed in God, but man was the highest intellectual form of life, and therefore could be considered God. So could I stand for a government position?
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  • Posted by Dargo 10 years, 4 months ago
    What the hell does it matter what you believe in has to do with holding public office. People have just got to SHOVE their values into everyone face. Let us stop this crap and get on with living.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 4 months ago
    This is all great, cept for one thing...

    Until the 14th Amendment, the Constitution did NOT guarantee freedom of religoin.

    The 1st Amendment barred CONGRESS, aka, the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT from establishing a religion (state church, like the Green church of Earth-worship we now have), or from preventing the free exercise of religion.

    So any reference to a State Constitution prior to the passage of the 14th Amendment is irrelevant. States could have a state church, they could require Christianity or Islam or Buddhism if they so chose.
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    • Posted by $ 10 years, 4 months ago
      All I find in the 14th relevant to this discussion is the first clause:

      "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States;"

      But that did not stop Maryland or South Carolina or half a dozen other states from denying people their civil rights based on their (lack of) religion. In point of fact, as I cited above, the courts in Maryland ruled that Roy Torcaso's rights were NOT violated because he was neither required to believe in God, nor hold public office.
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      • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 4 months ago
        Hey, for the sake of brevity, I was conceding the reading of the 14th many people I've argued with, in that it extends the Bill of Rights to apply to the States as well as the federal government.

        So, with that out of the way, Maryland and S. Carolina can make it a crime punishable by death to be non-Christian, as far as the Constitution is concerned.
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    • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 4 months ago
      Which is why the 14th Amendment is one of the most important amendments.
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      • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 4 months ago
        And, no, Maph. The extension of federal limitations to the States where not specifically address in the Constitution would be a very bad thing.

        What the Founding Fathers knew, and what most totalitarian/marxist/socialist/communist/nazi/fascist/progressives/statists don't get, is that our Russian doll model works to ensure the greatest level of freedom possible in a large nation.
        You guys want to be a bunch of socialist dipshits in Minnesota? Go for it! I'll move to... oh... Kentucky. Where we live by a different set of rules. Or Arizona. And that promotes the freedom of people to live how they choose. Doesn't ensure it, just promotes it.
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        • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 4 months ago
          No, the limitations that the Constitution places on the Federal government are very good, and should be applied to every level of government, National, State, and Local.

          And no, allowing the state governments to violate the Constitutional rights of their citizens would not, in fact, give the greatest level of freedom. The greatest level of freedom is achieved when no government, not even the state government, is not allowed to violate the rights of its people.
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      • Posted by $ 10 years, 4 months ago
        The 14th Amendment does not guarantee freedom of religion.

        It DOES require that the public debt of the United States never be questioned.
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        • Posted by MattFranke 10 years, 4 months ago
          I think its very interesting to hear people champion the 14th Amendment so much. My review of history has lead me to a different conclusion. It mostly stems from what you said about ensuring the public debt. The incorporation of the federal government, and the 14th Amendment; seems to me to be the cornerstone for the setting up of a central bank and a huge fiat loan, with us listed as surety for that loan. The people of America are "the full faith and credit of the US government" as it has been known since the creation of the Federal Reserve. Our labors that they claim right to through taxes, are what pay the interest on our loan from the private bank that loans our "money" to us at interest.
          You seem sharp as a tack; and I would be most interested in hearing a detailed summary of your opinion of the 14th, specifically, what were the ramifications of it, and not its intentions. Through school we were always taught 'why' a certain bill was passed; but rarely 'how' it turned out in practice. It might make for an interesting post; unless you have already done it somewhere that you could direct me to.
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  • Posted by khalling 10 years, 4 months ago
    Do you still have to swear on the Bible before testifying in court? I was a witness in an age discrimination case in Tennessee in 1990. I refused to swear on a bible and there was all sorts of not knowing what to do. Finally I had to just swear to the judge who looked a bit shifty actually.
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    • Posted by $ 10 years, 4 months ago
      Depends where you live. In Michigan, last time I was in court, I swore or affirmed without the Bible.

      Note that in "Night of January 16th" when asked to take the oath, Karen Andre announces that she is an atheist. I never understood why that was an element in that scene until a few years ago when I found out about these old laws.
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  • Posted by sfdi1947 10 years, 4 months ago
    That is all 16th century "Uh huh" based in the crude belief that a person without a religious ethic had no ethics.
    If that were ever sighted as evidentiary proof in voy dire proceeding today there would be an instantaneously occurring litigation over it. The same thing would occur if it affected a political issue. Look at our current National CEO, I don't think he even knows what he is. He claims he is a Christian, and I don't think I've ever heard him state, unequivocally that he is this or that.
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