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Practical option for going on strike

Posted by lookdad 9 years, 2 months ago to Economics
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We've all talked about what it would be like to go on strike, or what a true Galt's Gulch would look like. Here's an idea from an email conversation with some friends of mine:

"If there was a national tax revolt, we might tie [the Fed's] hands. They can plan until the cows come home, but if taxpayers said, "NO!" with our cash instead of our mouths and stopped paying taxes, most everything would grind to a halt - and not just [the specific gov atrocity we were talking about]. Huge shutdown. There would be panic among the government to get things rolling again. At that point the people have leverage. But that would require a unified opposition. We better not hold our breath on that one."

That led me to think: are there other ways that we can greatly reduce tax revenue (even if they raised taxes) within the current code?

• Is there a way for everyone to file tax extensions indefinitely without actually paying money? Technically, we'd "agree that we owe" XX amount of money, but give them a note of debt and keep the cash set aside in our bank accounts.

• Can we create an underground economy, where bartering is the only accepted currency? Obviously gold was used in the gulch, but technically gold is just an acceptable standard... If I trade my eggs for someone else's milk, then no sales tax is applicable. AND, if almost everything I "buy" is from bartering, I can lower my income drastically and give the IRS less.

• Or do you think we could actually get a nationwide tax strike off the ground?


All Comments


Previous comments...   You are currently on page 2.
  • Posted by $ CBJ 9 years, 2 months ago
    " . . . if taxpayers said, "NO!" with our cash instead of our mouths and stopped paying taxes, most everything would grind to a halt . . ."

    Including the government's electronic money-printing machine? I think it would go into overdrive.
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  • Posted by Mamaemma 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I have 5 employees that I pay every week, and I have suggested that they reduce their withholding. I suggest that they put the money in a savings account instead of letting the government use their money interest free. But not one has done it
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  • Posted by Mamaemma 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Last year the IRS decided my husbands patients payments were mostly in the form of checks and credit cards, and they felt more should have been cash payments, so they did an investigation. After much payment to the CPA, the IRS said they were wrong. Stupid! People never pay in cash.
    Thanks for the info. At the very least in the eyes of the IRs, the citizen is guilty and its up to the citizen to prove innocence
    Edit: clarity
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  • Posted by $ jdg 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    There are a variety of agencies, both state and federal, that can seize property without a court proceeding first.

    In the cases I'm most familiar with (IRS and California's Franchise Tax Board) there are a variety of "due process rights" you do have, if you cooperate with the agency. For instance, you can negotiate monthly payment plans with them or (in a few cases) even have them accept only part of what you owe (though the ads you'll hear from lawyers advertising these things are very exaggerated). In cases where you can show poverty, they may postpone indefinitely trying to collect.

    But if they decide you're a resister or you're stonewalling them, they'll just grab everything and make you go to court to get any of it back.

    So there is or is not "due process," depending mostly on what you call "due process." The government certainly doesn't have to prove its case first, which would be my definition of the term.

    The big change in the last few years is that there's now a lot of automated computer-matching of forms. If someone reports that they paid you money, and the agency doesn't find it on your tax return, they'll send you an automated "notice of proposed change." *Don't* ignore these notices, or you lose opportunities to argue about them. (And a lot of the things the computer "discovers" actually are wrong and can easily be reversed, if you respond in time.)
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  • Posted by Dennis55 9 years, 2 months ago
    I have probably daydreamed about a tax strike to the point of obsession.
    I do not favor a consumer strike because it's possible to hurt hard working producers before the Fed can feel the equivalent of no sales tax coming in. In this case the first best thing you can do NOW is be more selective about where you spend-local, family owned producers.
    Where the Fed has us over a barrel is we stood by while they instituted the withholding from our paychecks. We essentially mail them a huge amount of money every payday-generally having our employers-or our accountants spending resources and acting as an unpaid collection agency. Many have said that if our monthly income deduction came in the form of a bill that we write a check for every month-like our mortgage, utilities etch, there would be a tax revolt tomorrow.
    Our power today is for 90,000,000 hard working honest producers to all go to our HR department on Monday and change your payroll deduction to a number that would insure little to no withholding. One would shut off the income stream over night. I'm not an attorney but I don't think is refusal to pay taxes--it's paying them the way they refund us. They hold onto our money for a year then we jump through ridiculous hoops trying to get some of it back. I do NOT suggest anything illegal. Just pay the taxes differently and on your terms. The point being we have the power. It's our dough! But it would take everyone and an organized commitment. They will continue to ram the moochers and looters down our throat as long as we act like whipped pups and keep sending them our money.
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  • Posted by Mamaemma 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    My brother, who was a CPA, once told me that the IRS is the only entity that can seize assets without due process. Is that true?
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  • Posted by $ jdg 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It's worse than that. The IRS considers a barter trade to be two sales. You are considered to have sold your eggs for the Fair Market Value of the milk, and the other guy is considered to have sold his milk for the FMV of the eggs. Thus both of you have implied income (though depending on how you got or produced the products, you each may have some deductible expenses against that income).
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  • Posted by $ jdg 9 years, 2 months ago
    I am a tax professional and have seen the IRS (and state agencies') collections department at work. They have no problem seizing bank accounts, garnishing wages, or putting liens on any real estate you own until they get whatever money they consider that you owe them.

    This is one reason I say that we're headed for the status of a banana republic. One of the things the countries fitting that description all have in common is that the kinds of assets tax authorities know how to grab, simply don't exist there. Nearly all land titles are informal, because any land that was owned "on the books" was seized decades ago. Similarly, there are few bank accounts, and most workers are paid in cash. And most businesses operate illegally, because getting the many required licenses would mean paying so much in bribes that the owner would go broke first.

    I'm not going to jeopardize my own career by advocating that people move their assets or activities "off the books," but I will point out that historically, this is what everyone does when taxes and government spending rise so high that most on-the-books jobs can't be sustained any longer. Thus if this were to happen, then the inhabitants of a "Gulch"-like community in that country would effectively be the same as everyone else, except that they moved off the books first and so may have managed to keep more of their assets than others in the population did.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 2 months ago
    Any tax revolt, in order to work, would need a very large group, and would need to include some big money earners, perhaps a few well-known corporations, as well. Anyone in the Gulch know someone who can organize such an enterprise? A tax revolt is certainly more practical than a Galt-type strike, but it would take a Galt-type person to get it going. Preferably one who has already established his/her bona-fides and is well known to the public. Where are you John or Jeanne?
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  • Posted by MagicDog 9 years, 2 months ago
    Actually, you can already do the bartering at gun shows, swap meets, flea markets and other places.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yeah, and good luck with trusting "everyone" to go along who says they are going along.
    This reminds me when I was playing with a snake on another board about five years go.
    He was all "Take my country back? No one took my country. I don't know what you are talking about."
    Anyway, the subject of too much for taxes came up.
    He suggested I should by example lead a revolt in getting people not to pay their income taxes,
    I asked why should I stick my neck out like that.
    He wrote, "Are you a follower? Or are you a leader?"
    I replied kinda like-- "I'm just a guy at home with my PC."
    That snake would have loved to see me serve time like Wesley Snipes.
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  • Posted by wiggys 9 years, 2 months ago
    his first premis "everything the god made is good" is but wishful thinking since there is no god. another politician with limited thinking capacity.
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  • Posted by wiggys 9 years, 2 months ago
    Maybe you should consider that the bulk of the working population has just thrown their hand up and will do what ever they can to just keep clear of government employees. of course the non-working part of our population LOVE things as they are. That should be a word to the wise.
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  • Posted by cjferraris 9 years, 2 months ago
    If you really want reform in government, just stop withholding altogether. You should get paid in cash, and then right next to the payroll office, have a tax collector so that everyone has to pay right then. With paycheck deducting, the money we have to fork over every month is mainly painless. With people having to pay $300/$400, or more every paycheck, see how long it is before there is a tax revolt..
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  • Posted by barwick11 9 years, 2 months ago
    If you're going to get "everyone" involved, might as well just do it right and blatantly ignore everything not justified by the Constitution.

    But good luck getting "everyone" to go along.
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  • Posted by Flootus5 9 years, 2 months ago
    I remember it was estimated back in the 90's that if 10% of taxpayers refused to pay, the whole house of cards would tumble down. Which is of course why they devised how to deduct it from your paycheck before you even get your pay.

    But for the self-employed it could get interesting. But then they would yank all business licenses, etc.

    Ah, but then the barter system. Bartering is a sensitive nerve issue with the IRS and there is a lot more of it and always has been than generally known. There is a really fun old 1959 Debbie Reynolds - Tony Randall movie about the IRS and a bartering individual:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mating_...
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 9 years, 2 months ago
    Well, this does not sound exciting, but I believe
    the time for a "Mind Strike" is not yet. There is
    still time to try to convert people to Objectivism,or
    at least a belief in individual rights. (Of course,
    the movie of "Atlas Shrugged" was something of
    a disappointment; it seems that Ayn Rand is
    turning over in her grave. But after I went out
    after seeing Part I, a man said something like,
    "Makes you want to read the book." Evidently,
    he hadn't).
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  • Posted by Ranter 9 years, 2 months ago
    One can apply for an extension, but all taxes due have to be paid on time even if the filing date is extended.

    Barter is subject to income taxes. When I receive value in a barter, it is considered income by the IRS.

    When Producers go on strike, most people call it "retirement." ;-)
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
    You just nailed the reasons why the government party prefers an income tax over an end user consumption tax. Ergo sum income tax is left wing fascist socialist in nature supporting the position that government is superior to citizens. A vote at the cash register when purchasing something or another supports the opposite viewpoint - citizen superiority to government.

    Easy to understand if you pick up the sign that says center and move it from the center of the left to the true center which is the constitution.

    You'll find zero Democrats or Republicans in the true center much less to the right...Far as I know only Libertarians and the true right wing extremists the anarchists in that direction. The rest of the extremists are found on the left starting with the ones who demand our votes,.
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  • Posted by Munn1414 9 years, 2 months ago
    It must be done quickly. Don't go to work, don't accept your check, with no income to tax how long can they last.
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  • Posted by DavidT 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I live there, New Hampshire. Two words: property tax. They'll get your money one way or another. If you rent, it's more expensive because the landlord has to pay the tax instead of you.
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