Thanks but I'll make my own decision.

The fact is you cannot have a marriage without both sexes represented.

Many things are and have been legal which shouldn't be or have been.

America is also not a monarchy. Which is as irrelevant as your last assertion.

Then I'll just carve it out of her... if she dies in the process... well, she wasn't human by my definition, anyway.

*I* do not enslave her to 9 months of labor.

No woman on Earth has ever had 9 months of labor.

So it's worse to enslave her to 9 months of caring for a human being than to murder a human being, and yet you'd sentence doctors and the rest of us to a life time of caring for millions of human beings, many of whom have actually *earned* our emnity.

And of course, every woman who chooses abortion is a victim of rape. Not a one of them is a mattressback who wants to continue behaving irresponsibly. sure. Except that's not the case.

New author for me.

Audible Books has it. I'll be listening to it on the way home from work.

You ever been treated in either a Shriner, Catholic or veteran's hospital?

I didn't like either. I don't know what drugs he started using before switching to 'adult' science fiction, but I was disappointed after enjoying his juveniles so much.

When it's born it is a human being.

Before that it's inside the woman and she gets to decide.

You can't enslave her to 9 months of labor incubating for your beliefs. Thank for freedoms in America where the religious views of another doesn't enslave women.

"Genetics DO NOT determine humanity. An acorn is no more a tree than what's gestating is a "baby."

Indeed, an acorn IS a an oak. It is not a fern, it cannot become a fern. It is not a rose, it cannot become a rose.

Exactly how is a an unborn child different than a quadriplegic or a brain-dead patient? All 3 are helpless and dependent upon others.
The only difference is that, if left alone and cared for, the quadriplegic will not grow new limbs, and the brain-dead patient will not regain his brain functions. But an unborn baby, if left alone and cared for as you would expect quadriplegic, will become a human being. Not a fern, not a quadriplegic.

Once you let individuals decide what is human, when their own interests are involved, you enter the monstrous territory of "death panels". Worse, of letting some people, simply because of their physical makeup and irresponsible character, decide who will live and who will die.

Superficial physical characteristics are determined by DNA.

You don't like my definition make up your own.

You still don't get to tell women not to abort if they want to here in America.

Your religion doesn't rule anyone but you and those who choose to follow.

What about the water into wine thing?

I repeat my question: why do you think I'm a Catholic?

Better than the mentality that enslaved and murdered millions in the name of the collective.

Like your jibes about "your religion" aren't ad hominem attacks.

If you thought, you wouldn't make the absurd assertions you make.

The fact is that same sex couples can marry.

The fact is that abortion is mostly legal.

The fact is that America is not a theocracy.

Nope. Our Founding Fathers wrote the Constitution.

If it's got so much of your god in it show us some quotes from that their christian bible.

Hiraghm claims: "My argument is that unborn..."

Genetics DO NOT determine humanity. An acorn is no more a tree than what's gestating is a "baby."

It is a PROCESS through which at the end there might be a baby.

Fact is plans don't make a house. A bolt or tire doesn't make a car, even all the parts on a shelf don't make a car. They must be put together properly.

And finally, if you have a visitor in your home one minute beyond when they were invited for you can call a cop to get them out.

Yet, even if invited (having had sex is the reality) why do you demand that a woman take care of another "person" one moment more than they are wanted? If someone doesn't leave your home when you demand it my guess is you will proclaim your willingness to shoot them.

Yet you demand a woman house a "child" YOU believe in no matter what her opinion is.

Sheesh... Talk about slavery.

What's that water into wine thing? Oh myyyyy and feeding all those folks with a few fish and a couple of loaves of bread.

So, are you going to shoot married same sex couples?

Sounds like the same mentality that inspired so many religious nuts to shoot born doctors and fly airplanes into buildings.

And that's why the 1% is getting richer and the poor are sinking farther into poverty...

Ain't socialism crushing the middle class. It's the top 1% capitalists.

Another ad hominem attack.

Pretty sure that means I've made my point.

If you can't deal with the issues Hiraghm attacks the person.

Thanks for such a clear demonstration.

Yup, there you go denigrating the care in the military, Shriners and Catholic hospitals.

I find it sad that you attach $$$$$$$ to such skills.

Consumer Reports is a good idea. Angie's list (if it's honest) is a good idea.

Several fronts can help keep good doctors and weed out some of the bad ones.

Enforcement and regulatory agents need to be more open about doctors with questionable outcomes.

Hospitals need to clamp down on doctors who have drinking or drug problems. If they DO something about a doctor with that kind of problem the hospital itself should be shielded from any malpractice issues.

Insurance companies, rather than increasing insurance fees, should discontinue coverage for those who are concomitant.

Medicare and Medicaid need to clamp down on fraud more than what they have been doing.

I'd like to say outcomes are important, but some surgeons take risky patients because of the challenge. Others will milk a dying patient financially for all they can. How can one tell the difference? Good question.

I find it amazing that you laugh at the belief / nonbelief of another when there is plenty to laugh at in what your holy book proclaims.

Your opinion is not fact.

Feel free to gloat that your intentional obtuseness makes it frustrating to discuss anything with you.

You keep coming back to "your religion".

I have not made a religious argument in regard to abortion. That you keep coming back to "your religion" is a clear sign you cannot refute the arguments I have made.

Superficial appearances are indeed determined by DNA. Whether one is a man or a gibbon is also determined by DNA.

Should a woman give birth to a thousand children, not one will grow up to be a gibbon, while the thousand will all still have unique, human, genetic patterns. Unique from the woman's.

My argument is not that abortion is immoral and therefore should be made illegal.

My argument is that unborn humans are still human and therefore the law must be applied equally; either women cannot murder the humans growing helplessly inside them, or I *can* murder illegal aliens... for no better reason than that woman.

Killing human beings is killing human beings. If women are allowed to determine arbitrarily whether or not a given human being is, in fact, human, then that's a violation of the 1964 civil rights act... unless as a male I too get to arbitrarily pick and choose who is human and who is not.

If you don't want to be called an idiot or a child, don't argue like either. Take your grudge against Christianity elsewhere, it has no place in an argument *with me* about abortion.

Sorry... reality is reality. One cannot think "banana split" and have a baloney sandwich turn into a banana split.

Fine, if that's the way freedom works in America, I gotta go stock up on ammunition, cause there's LOTS of people out there I can declare non-human...