Bob, I'm completely willing to pay for anything I use, including highways, bridges, and infrastructures of water, electricity, natural gas, etc.

I think the problem in the way you phrase your second paragraph is that it's impossible to quantify how much "support" "society" needs or wants.

It's the proverbial, robbing Peter to pay Paul always gets the support of Paul.

And as my lawyer-adversary Claire on Linked In's White House Group puts it, there is NO LIMIT in her mind to how much teachers should be paid. Yeah, they're very important, but NO LIMIT?! Hundreds of k per year? Millions?

I really think that individuals and a "free market" can set the "going price" of just about everything much better than any "good for society" claim.

Here in NC, there's a current battle going on between eco-forces and government agencies about repairing or replacing a bridge to the Outer Banks. One eco-group actually proposes building something like the second-longest bridge in the world to solve "access" problems for the local residents, while the government tries to point out that their solution fails to meet existing EPA regs!

Go figure. Why does my home insurance rate include subsidies for folks who own a home on the coast? Good of Society so people can go there to fish, sun-bathe and vacation.

I'd much rather pay the going rate for a sensible bridge and local dining and lodging costs based on real costs than some nebulous "good of society" impossible estimate.

See just above, Bob..
"Posted by Boborobdos 1 day, 5 hours ago
Really? And what do you expect the outcome of diabetes to be when untreated? "

Bob, did you notice the word ALL in my last post. Not ALL people without health care die from the lack.
Yes, diabetes, untreated, will likely kill you, but one of my local friends decided that he didn't want to be treated for his diabetes, so he went on a very strict and healthy diet, lost weight and lost his diabetes. I just had bariatric surgery last week. I was on the road to diabetes. Most people who have the surgery and had diabetes go completely off insulin or other treatment in days, weeks or months.

Stop throwing red herrings and black/white "what-if's" into the mix, ok?
Thanks.

bobo-you are such a nuisance

Right I should say in relevance to my goals in life I'm dependent on society.

Damn it!! This country is not a friggin' democracy. I believe Constitutional Republic is the word your looking for Bobo. Democracy is nothing more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. Democracy be damned.

a perfect example of why I labeled you an idiot. I have never judged gays about anything. I do have an opinion about the conduct of lots of people including "militant" homosexuals who insist on not just being treated as equals, which they, but as living a lifestyle that is superior to that of heterosexuals. That is the militant position that a relatively small number of homosexuals take despite the propaganda put out by the militants. Your life would be simpler and better if you chose to keep your sexuality to yourself as most heterosexuals do. I'm not saying stay in the closet, but stay out of peoples faces and go about your life like evryone else. Of course there are some heterosexuals that want to be in peoples faces as well and they are just as crazy as the militants on your side of the fence.

Good luck and Merry Christmas.

Fred

since you are likely paid to hang out here, at least pay attention. Within the US at present, while highly undesirable laws are in FORCE, one can still make the decision, by their own choice to comply. this is not an either or proposition, bobo. Please keep up

Once again, a total misunderstanding of what I wrote. It's not what I call the color, but what everyone agrees the color red to mean. Language and words are in constant dispute, the most famous of all would be Bill Clinton's prevarication on what the word is, is. Of course his argument was pure bs. The color red is still red but in another language it may have a name that sounds nothing like red. Furthermore it still has no meaning to a blind man who doesn't have a reference point in order to understand the concept of red. However I continue to be puzzled by the Atheists who want to convince Christians that there is no god.

I can honestly say that I have never attempted to convince or convert any non-believer in God. I will always wish them good fortune and only ask of them that they do the same. No Atheist has ever been able to honestly show any harm to them by any Christian. That's not to say that there aren't people who call themselves Christians who sadly aren't really clear on the concept. I wish you good fortune as I wish for any decent human being who respects others as they would like to be respected.

Fred

Strangely enough, it has nothing to do with consensus, it has everything to do with my own knowledge. I phrased it as I did, because the person I was having my little debate with wasn't really interested in analyzing the very concept of a God as his own religion seems to be the concept of Atheism as his religion whether acknowledges it or not. The point is that it doesn't matter to me what he or she believes, but it shouldn't matter to him or her what I believe.

I should not impose anything on him/her, or vice versa. The Atheist belief that Christians want to impose anything on atheist or other religions for that matter is based on false representations by those that are always attacking Christianity. That's not to say that there aren't some misguided Christians who can get a little pushy at times. The same is true for the other side of course. When was the last time a Christian filed a lawsuit to prohibit an Atheist from doing what he wants to do other than constantly sue Christians?

The bottom line is that for me as a Christian there is ample evidence of my faith everywhere around me, from natures bounty to mathematics. Are mathematics so precise by chance? I don't believe so. I believe therefor it is so.

Funny thing is that Ayn Rand actually believed in the same thing, she just chose it to be created by chance. Our core beliefs are the same.

Fred