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  • Posted by Ragnell 9 years, 1 month ago
    I think it's quite interesting that a number of leaders in the neopagan community are quite conversant in Objectivism and began,as many did, as Objectivists in the 1960's.

    It's important to remember that the Abrahamic religions are not the only ones, and those who reject the Abrahamic God are not necessarily atheists. I know Unitarian Universalists, Wiccans and Eclectic Pagans who are quite fond of Rand, even if they wouldn't care to live her world.
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  • Posted by airfredd22 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Re: woodlema,

    You certainly seem to be articulate and knowledgeable, however you are indeed correct in your sarcastic remark about your ignorance.

    I made it very clear in my answer to the question raised by "mamaemma in her question, "Is it possible to be a follower of Ayn Rand and not be an atheist?"

    I clearly stated that I believe it is indeed possible as I acknowledging that I am a Christian see absolutely no conflict between Ayn Rand's Objectivism philosophy and my belief in Christianity.

    I of course can understand your lack of understanding this concept as you are clearly a defender of atheism and can't understand that followers of any religion don't find a conflict where in fact no conflict exists. This is of course only my opinion based on my personal understanding and people of all persuasions may differ.

    As an aside, the problem that religious people have with atheists is that they want to ridicule and deny the right of religious people to practice their beliefs. That is of course primarily directed at Christians and Jews, as most atheists don't have the courage to direct this hatred for religion onto other faiths such as Islam. Some members of that faith unfortunately tend to be less forgiving of those that oppose them.

    Fred Speckmann
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  • Posted by woodlema 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Catholicism, Pentecostal, Baptist, Mormon, Methodist, Orthodox Jew, . These are what are generally considered "RELIGIONS."

    Christianity, Judaism are a broader category that are not necessarily affiliated with a "RELIGION"," i.e "Organized Religion." that affiliates itself with a form of faith.

    Rand was most certainly an Atheist, and I will repeat that the question posed was carefully worded.

    "Is it possible to be a follower of Ayn Rand and not be an atheist? ", NOT "Is it possible to be a follower of Ayn Rand and be a "__Insert religion here__?"

    The difference is specifically as NOT an Atheist, meaning some form of faith in a Creator, or God if you will whether you are, or claim to be affiliated with an organized "RELIGION" or someone who does not subscribe to any particular religion but does believe in an Intelligent Design, Creator or God.

    I apologize for being so ignorant in paying attention to these subtleties in phrasing. My wealth of ignorance is the stuff of legend I guess.

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  • Posted by airfredd22 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Re: woodlema,

    I apologize, I did not realize that I was addressing an ignorant, (the meaning of which is someone lacking knowledge) who doesn't understand that by definition people are either atheists, agnostics, or religious. There are no other options.

    I proudly claim to be religious, in fact a Christian, while still a believer in the Ayn Rand philosophy without any sense of contradiction with my christian beliefs.

    Fred Speckmann
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  • Posted by woodlema 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    airfredd22: Please read the question posed, and please do not confuse, "not be an atheist" with "religion" or "being a Christian." Your response is not in line with the question when you inject the word "religion."
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  • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Mark, where would be the best place for me to buy your book? By which I mean, is there a website where you get a larger percentage of the sale?
    Thank you for stopping in.
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  • Posted by Mark 9 years, 2 months ago
    Thanks for your provocative comment/question, and for taking a stand that may be unpopular. Another way to ask your question might be, "Is it possible to appreciate Ayn Rand and be interested in her work without agreeing with everything in her writing and the way she lived her life?"

    Perhaps it's too strong a contrast, but I compare my Objectivist upbringing to the religions of my peers. While most of my friends and neighbors went to church or synagogue, my family 'worshipped' in the pages of Atlas Shrugged. Through my stepfather (and later, my own reading), Ayn Rand taught me how to think. I have always appreciated her clear exposition of ideas. In her writing, she refuses to let an inconsistency go unaddressed and she articulates the reasoning behind her conclusions. That said, I disagree with some of her conclusions. Further, when she avoids discussing some topics, I have looked elsewhere for answers (still applying her thoughtful, relentless logical process).

    To be clear, I certainly recognize irreconcilable differences between Objectivism and Christianity (see The Soul of Atlas: http://SoulofAtlas.com), but I agree that it is possible to be a 'follower' on some points and not on every point.
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  • Posted by flanap 9 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yeah, when men are not leaders, better the gap filled by a lady than no one.

    Glad we see eye to eye on this...most current evangelicals consider this doctrine of biblical leadership outdated and erroneously attribute it to the Apostle Paul somehow being a misogynist.
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  • Posted by teri-amborn 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Pastor simply means "shepherd".
    Even though I agree that men are anointed to be leaders and teachers, once in awhile you find a Deborah. Female leaders/teacher's are few and far between...(incidentally Hillary ISN'T one) they occasionally appear....and YES the pattern of the Temple is also about entering into union with God through Jesus.
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  • Posted by flanap 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Here is the problem with the universe existing in eternity-past: the universe is amoral - no development of any meaning can come from this situation that is absolute.

    We cannot live without absolute meaning, no matter what the most erudite post-modern PhDs will promulgate.

    Therefore, a person, entity or intelligence has to have existed in eternity, without being created; there is no God creating God creating God to get to here...there is no point to it. God gives any creation meaning; we, man, corrupts meaning and distorts creation in ways where creation becomes our god, and we seek to make Him in our image.

    Now, many may say, "Why did God, if He is there and doesn't need anything, create anything?"

    To me, that is the only question that cannot be answered; His Word doesn't address it; however, I know He is there for me to ask someday upon meeting Him....I do not think you can meet the "universe" or "matter" and ask it anything and get a response.
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  • Posted by flanap 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I can appreciate that; however, men, right or wrong in what they teach, are the only authorized teachers of God's Word and can be pastors. No such thing as a woman pastor, just like marriage cannot be defined as anything but between one man and one woman, them being either two nonChristians, or two Christians (principle of unequal yoking must be observed).

    Nevertheless, not sure what the lady teaching you meant by her interpretation of the Temple. The Temple was designed to be a tangible teaching device for what the Christian spiritual life would be like after the Messiah had come and that Church began.
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  • Posted by CapeEsperance 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "common ground" as in basis for decisions and determining actions. "world view" would also work. I am a Christian - individual freedom to choose is key. totalitarians of all sorts think they know what we should decide to do...usually to further their goals (and line their pockets) in that name of 'common good'
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  • Posted by teri-amborn 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I agree.
    My first encounter with a real teaching pastor was a lady who explained that the layout of the Temple in Jerusalem was a layout of a human being on the search for self. Not everyone makes it into the "Holy of Holies".
    That began my inner transformation. Ayn Rand improved upon that.
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  • Posted by flanap 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Ok I get it. Unfortunately, most pastors do not yield thoughtful fruit from their sermons, but create nothing better than "Happy Meals" for the sheep which require no thinking at all.
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  • Posted by flanap 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I assume you believe there is only one true concept of God, else, the idea of "concepts" of God results in no meaningful concepts of God.
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  • Posted by tdechaine 9 years, 3 months ago
    In essence, you can "follow" anyone you want; but you would not be an Objectivist.
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  • Posted by Zero 9 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Absolutely sincere. I'm not a big fan of sarcasm. Not that I'm immune, but in general I view it as a form of cowardice.
    If you have something to say - say it.

    As for that Day - it was a personal experience that will never mean to anyone else what it meant to me.

    There was no miracle nor burning bush.
    But it was Holy to me and I won't trot it out haphazardly.

    I will write about it someday, however. I made a promise to do so.
    I'll tag you when I do, Robb. And I thank you for your interest.
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