False Premise: Maternity Leave

Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 3 months ago to Culture
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So here's my view: it's NICE if an employer can afford to have someone else take over for you if you become pregnant, but shouldn't be mandatory by law. You were hired to do a job. If you become unable to fulfill that commitment you made to your employer, why should your employer pay for it?

Now I agree that terminating someone just for being pregnant is stupid and should be illegal (maybe). Why? Because you have to show it is preventing them from doing their job. Pregnancy is temporary - it isn't a disability. If you are a reasonable employer, you'll make reasonable accommodations. What I don't want to see is the nonsense this article is pushing with the socialist maternity leave rules of Europe where both father AND mother get paid time off for up to like a year. That's ridiculous to me.
SOURCE URL: http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2015-01-15/maternity-leave-u-dot-s-dot-policies-still-fail-workers?campaign_id=DN011515


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  • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 3 months ago
    Another one of the lies propagated by the left - that women get lower pay. But this sentence points out that is false, if you read it carefully.

    "One of the reasons women make less than men—16¢ per dollar less, according to the Pew Research Center—is that they’re clustered in lower-paying fields, or in positions where they work fewer hours."

    They are in different types of fields and don't work the same hours. Men typically take higher risk jobs (that compensate them for the risk), work longer hours, and work in their field longer and more consistently - all which have value to an employer.
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    • Posted by Snoogoo 9 years, 3 months ago
      Another reason for the wage gap is actually that women sometimes pause their careers or stop them short in order to have children. Therefore, when they re-enter the workforce, they have less accumulated experience or basically have to start all over at the bottom again. I'm not talking about a 6 week maternity leave, it's more of a 3 to 8 year opt out period. I recall at least one study from an economics course that found this as a large factor when you take the occupation variable out.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 3 months ago
    Most successful businessmen devote their lives and sacrifice free time for that success. Most women still do not and that is the reason for any gap in pay and success. It is in many ways a personal choice that may be affected by gender issues like pregnancy. Men and women are not equal in talents or value to the enterprise and as a result pay differences occur.
    In my experience as a consultant in a wide variety of businesses I have known many effective women in many roles in businesses. There has been no evidence whatsoever that women or men are purposely passed over or paid less solely due to gender. However, both men and women are regularly discriminated against in hiring due to age (older and over qualified) and inexperience.
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    • Posted by khalling 9 years, 3 months ago
      I discriminated against pregnant applicants all the time; therefore, women
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      • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 3 months ago
        Against someone because they have a physical reason that prevents performance in a job is not because they are women, its because of the lower value to the enterprise.
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        • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 3 months ago
          But only one sex has that "physical reason," so I guess the answer is to give men time off after their wives have a child.
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          • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 3 months ago
            No, don't 'give' anyone time off with pay regardless of gender. Businesses don't exist to serve employees. Someone wants time off, they earn the time off by working extra hours without pay like many dedicated people already do. None of this requires the assistance of government; it requires education of employees on where their jobs come from and where they go when business is harmed by looters.
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            • Posted by khalling 9 years, 3 months ago
              it would depend. If I was in a business that catered to pregnant women, new mothers or mothers of small children, my bene packages would be different. After all, I would want my marketing and sales forces to reflect that demographic. But of course it have to be calculated into my overall costs. But overall, hiring a pregnant individual meant that the company would put a fair amount of training or getting up to speed time, just to lose that employee on the job for some period of time. As well, the risk goes up substantially that the employee might quit after giving birth. It's what I did when I got pregnant. I did tell my employer very early on and I trained my replacement.
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              • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 3 months ago
                Yes. This is the same thought process in hiring someone who is overqualified. They may be great for now, but you have to accept they're going to leave as soon as a job matching their abilities comes available somewhere.
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                • Posted by khalling 9 years, 3 months ago
                  no. it's completely different. Usually an over-qualified person -who you already know will leave, boosts whatever department they are hired in. Often increasing productivity and decreasing costs. I always hired the over-qualified. I knew the turn-over would be quick but the benefits out-weighed the risk. Think. You wanted Roark in your quarry.
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                  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 3 months ago
                    Even as you explain it sounds similar in that you're weighing probabilities on a scale. You're weighing how much value do they provide now vs. turnover costs.
                    I have the problem of not understanding why anyone would want a long-term job. I weight turnover costs as low but cost of leaving me hanging the middle of something without warning very high.
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            • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 3 months ago
              "Businesses don't exist to serve employees."
              I agree with the principle, but in my odd use of language a business managed by me *does* exist to serve customers, employees, and suppliers. Buying from someone or paying someone who isn't working out of charity isn't really serving them. Serving them is creating a framework where people's ability to create value thrives and then sharing some of that value with them, hopefully inspiring them to create more value. Many clients and employers have treated me this way. I try to pass it along.

              I am not moralizing that people _should_ act this way, but I've seen this mindset make a small handful of people successful. I think much value in the world comes from serving other people in freely agreed-upon trades.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 3 months ago
    "If you are a reasonable employer, you'll make reasonable accommodations."
    Yes. I never get this issue. I find the notion that you should be able to leave for maternity and not suffer any career setback to be an insult to the people who are were doing paid work during that time. It's saying they weren't getting any better at creating value. Maybe in an economy based on human muscle labor it could be true, but that's long gone centuries ago.

    You hit the nail on the head with "reasonable people". People all the time make arrangements to work more or less to accommodate each other's needs. If you can't do that, you won't have a good relationship among employers, vendors, employees/contractors, customers, etc. No law will fix that problem.
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