Ten Bucks For Your Thoughts

Posted by khalling 9 years, 5 months ago to Economics
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If you have not yet checked out the new online lifestyle mag Savvy Street, what are you waiting for? Here is one of wdonway's latest...
SOURCE URL: http://www.thesavvystreet.com/ten-bucks-for-your-thoughts/


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  • Posted by eddieh 9 years, 5 months ago
    I have always enjoyed the articals that are published every so often that uses hours of pay of an average worker it takes to buy such things as milk,eggs gasoline,housing and education. It a far better way to compare the way things are in reality.
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  • Posted by fivedollargold 9 years, 5 months ago
    $5Au's great uncle, who was a professor of Latin in NYC (Columbia Univ.?), left a bed to his niece in his will, along with a handful of items bequeathed to other relatives. Despite having a fine career, he accumulated very little in the way of goods or money. That was nearly a century ago. Look around your home. Most of you have two or more televisions, two cars, several rooms of furniture, and a 401(K) or other retirement plan. It is staggering to think that the average person today is far wealthier than previous generations. However, we may have hit the high water mark for our national wealth. Two million fewer workers are employed full time than just a few years ago. We are becoming a nation of part time workers ill-equipped to cope with an enormous national debt, healthcare costs that will skyrocket once Obamacare guarantees to insurance providers expire, and wages that will fall further and further behind inflation.
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  • Posted by Lucky 9 years, 5 months ago
    Walter Donway writes good sense and well when he has done his homework as here.

    As a sort of aside- I am a great fan of writer Jane Austen who I know kh reads. Austen wrote from about 1800 to 1810. She was quite numerate and often mentioned sums of money. I have a quick rule of thumb- one year 1800 UK pound equals 100 of my dollars. But this is only valid for some purposes, for defining status rather than comparing purchasing power. There are things we have now that did not exist in that time, potable running water, electricity.. motor vehicles, bicycles..
    Another writer (Singer) from 19th C Russia tells us what defined the rich family in the village - they owned their own bed. I reckon it is safe to say most of us are greatly better off now. But why? Is the wealth better shared? Do we work harder? No and no. The proposition of our dbh -that it is technology must be the answer. But where does this technology come from and why? It has to be in incentives tho' I think not necessary financial, a recognition that property rights are a precondition for human rights.

    More rambling, governments have racked up unprecedented debt. Normally, debt is bad, it means vulnerability. But there is something unique about much of this modern debt, no one owns it! So does it matter? I have not seen proper discussion of this. Many nations have arrangements but the US is the clearest, there is a private company, the Fed, it is controlled by government appointees, it has no owners but it has no-liability shareholders, it lends money to government by book or computer entries. It does not take in or earn or borrow money, it just lends. I think I am out of my depth here, but I make two statements: if money can be created out of nothing then money and wealth cannot be the same, all this seems to be closer to a Ponzi than anything else.
    The way I see it, It is so bizarre that you could not make it up. Perhaps I am wrong.

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  • Posted by 9 years, 5 months ago
    *headshake* The author clearly stated the value of the dollar rose and fell-UNTIL after 1913. something big happened then. and more importantly after 1933 when something REALLY big happened. but if you want to compare it to the value of having sex with an attractive healthy person-by all means. the dollars in your wallet are all typhoid mary's, at some point. get it now?
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 5 months ago
    When Henry Ford promised work for a dollar a day, his competitors thought him a fool for such extravagance. It led to the saying, "another day, another dollar." What would be the equivalent today? Another day another dime?
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  • Posted by $ puzzlelady 9 years, 5 months ago
    The value of money: Begin at the singularity: an individual must eat. How many hours of effort does it take to obtain the daily requirement of food to survive? In the most primitive times, the food was right there, on the trees and bushes, in the fields, in the year-round growing season of idyllic climate (call it Garden of Eden).

    As population increased and climate changed, more effort, even migration, became necessary to obtain the equivalent requirement. So the one unchanging, universal measure of value is human time and effort (call it "work" or "the job").

    Human intelligence, through invention and discovery, enhanced efficiency and productivity and increased the value of time and effort. Doing more with less allowed the building of the world as it is today.

    he value of anything must be measured against that most fundamental component, human life. Assigning an hour of human life an arbitrary dollar figure distorts and obliterates that basic premise, usually for some to gain at the expense of others. Likewise gold, assigned an arbitrary dollar value, is worth only what people believe emotionally that it's worth. Ooh, shiny.

    An hour of human life needs to be measured against what it gains in the most basic necessities of food and shelter. How many minutes of work does it take for a meal? How many hours of work does it take to pay the rent or mortgage? My first job paid $1 an hour. I worked 9 minutes for a loaf of bread.

    It's interesting to see the increasing move toward survivalism of folks who build their own huts in the wilderness and live by the earlier methods of hunting, fishing, growing their own food. The rest of us are at the mercy of supermarkets and their complex supply chains, an uninterrupted flow of electricity and water, and reliable ways of earning the means to obtain those.

    The bottom line is, how many irreplaceable hours of your life are you willing to spend to obtain some desired object or goal, under the conditions that have evolved around you? No one OWES you a job. And once nature no longer provides food free for the plucking in that idyllic communal paradise, all means of survival must be created.

    That is the point where private property enters the social context, as things belong to those who put their time and effort into producing them.

    Young people, who see a virtual infinity of time stretching before them and can waste it like grains of sand on the beach, seldom think of value in terms of hours. But they clamor for a "living wage" to get enough money for the pleasures of their lifestyle, severed from any calculation of what value their work produces.

    Older folks, seeing the sand in the hourglass running down, become more choosy on how to spend their time. And if they've saved or invested to tide them over comfortably in their golden years, they make the bitter discovery that government policies have frittered away the objective value of their savings and are impoverishing them by daily degrees. Their work, i.e. the hours of their life, represented by what they own, is being harvested by schemers in a web of complexity to which few have a map and whose structure is an application of intelligence and inventiveness gone immoral. I'd go so far as to call it cannibalistic.
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    • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 5 months ago
      I doubt there was ever a Garden of Eden. But hunter gathers generally spent less time working than people in an agrarian society, however this meant that hunter gather societies could support fewer people.

      I agree that we must measure economic efficiency based on a subsistence level of earnings (food). Thus the most efficient economies are those in which the median income is the highest compared to a subsistence level. It also means that economics applies even to a man on a deserted island. I explore these issues in much greater detail in my next non-fiction book, Source of Economic Growth, which I hope will be out in 2-4 months.
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  • -1
    Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 5 months ago
    "U.S. citizens who watch the value of the U.S. dollar, and their savings, shrinking year after year cannot refuse to accept dollars."
    That glass-half-full side of this is people will accept your dollars to purchases assets.

    It's very hard to create long-term yardsticks of value. Ultimately value is meeting people's wants or needs. We might choose the cost of 1000 sq ft of residential space or the cost of 2000 calories. But the residential space we have today and the 2000 calories we eat today are very different from in pre-industrial time. Maybe we could border on crass and look at the cost of sex with an attractive healthy young person because that hasn't changed that much over time. Maybe someone with a less dirty mind can think of a better yardstick.

    The author seems to be saying it's a failing of the USD that it's hard to convert from today's dollars to the dollars Abraham Lincoln spent for his Springfield home. That's not a failing of the dollar. It's amost impossible to calculate using any means.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 5 months ago
      "In terms of labor value, a dollar in 1911 was the equivalent of somewhere between $75 and $110 in 2007."
      Do you see the comparison? One dollar yesterday takes 75-100 dollars today. that is the effect of inflation.
      http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read...
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      • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 5 months ago
        A non-stable dollar is like a yard stick that changes. Would it make sense to say a yard stick in Lincoln's time is different than a yard stick today?

        That inflation represents theft on the part of the government and is morally evil In a free economy, which would include no legal tender laws, you would expect the price of most goods and services to be falling as new technologies made it easier to produce these items.
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        • -1
          Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 5 months ago
          "Would it make sense to say a yard stick in Lincoln's time is different than a yard stick today? "
          Absolutely different. One of the luxuries Lincoln added was a double-seater outhouse. He also had them run the chimney pipe by the bedroom so a fraction of the stove heat could be delivered to the bedroom. It's difficult to compare the value of these things to modern amenities.

          "you would expect the price of most goods and services to be falling as new technologies made it easier to produce these items. "
          In other words the supply of money would stay constant while the number of goods and services traded in the econmy increase. That makes logical sense, but I can't see any reason for that to be desirable. In the monetary system I've lived under all my life, we don't want the thing we're trading with to be getting more valuable each year as good/services increase. Rather, we want to be getting less valuable so it's used as a medium of exchange and long-term value is stored in means of production which lead to more goods/services production.
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      • -1
        Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 5 months ago
        Yes. This is a simple calculation, not onerous to run. Inflation runs 3-6%. So after 96 years, $1 is $1 * (1.05)^96 = $108.
        By the same calculation, if someone gives me $20,000 and it takes me a week to get it invested in materials or stored in short-term bonds, I lose 20,000 * 0.05 / 50 = $20. This is no shock since there are other costs associated with transferring and protecting $20k. I'm on a trip right now. If I don't use the $1000, I'll lose $0.60 on that money to inflation. I'll also lose $6 for the same-price currency buyback option. I probably will use much of it and lose more on the crappy exchange rate I got than any of this other stuff. (My bank does not offer good exchange rates, and I don't do enough travel to justify changing banks.) All of this is insignificant if I solve my clients' problems.

        At the same time my family keeps 10% of our networth in cash accounts earning almost no interest. Much of it is for employee taxes we've escrowed to be paid on 941s. Some of it is money I owe within 30 days, retrained earnings, and just our personal slush to cover whatever comes up. We're paying good money for liquidity; it's not cheap but neither are credit card merchant fees, armored cars, etc.

        I find all of this very easy to calculate and not all the expensive. I don't obsess over every dollar I lose to changing money or letting bits of wealth languish in a bank account. We won't succeed or fail based on managing our money holding / changing costs.
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