thanks for that gringuita

Thanks for the extra information. Here is a link to a talk on Common Core given in Ohio. Pretty much paints a picture of what we are facing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8iPKIBI...
I can remember sitting and listening to the leaders of the strategic plan team babble on and around the subject. There was noting to do but listen politely, then, say, which I had to do several time, "Now, could be get back to the question I asked." They always thought they would get away with it, amazing. The definition of stupid is doing what doesn't work over and over.

http://www.eagleforum.org/educate/1998/n...
Here's an article that summarizes the Delphi Technique and suggests ways to thwart it: "Three steps can diffuse the Delphi Technique as facilitators attempt to steer a meeting in a specific direction.

Always be charming, courteous, and pleasant. Smile. Moderate your voice so as not to come across as belligerent or aggressive.
Stay focused. If possible, jot down your thoughts or questions. When facilitators are asked questions they don't want to answer, they often digress from the issue that was raised and try instead to put the questioner on the defensive. Do not fall for this tactic. Courteously bring the facilitator back to your original question. If he rephrases it so that it becomes an accusatory statement (a popular tactic), simply say, "That is not what I asked. What I asked was . . ." and repeat your question.
Be persistent. If putting you on the defensive doesn't work, facilitators often resort to long monologues that drag on for several minutes. During that time, the group usually forgets the question that was asked, which is the intent. Let the facilitator finish. Then with polite persistence state: "But you didn't answer my question. My question was . . ." and repeat your question."

I have several friends who live in AZ. I need ocean. I know desert sand is close to beach sand but I always feel something is missing. I have never seen Young Guns. I'm really not a fan of Hollywood A-list liberals. I trend more towards conservatives like Voight who I have actually worked with on "Hamlet." He was terrible and didn't get the part at all. On top of that, we had a terrible, inexperienced director.

Part of the set was a huge staircase with a door at the top. Voight would enter and start the soliloquy. On the top of the stairs he would say "To Be." then he would amble down the staircase mugging all the way. But the time he got to the bottom and uttered "Or not to be." the audience consistently broke out in gales of laughter. In spite of that, the blocking was never changed. Voight can create characters and bring them to life and that is an art in itself. Plus he's a Libertarian for all practical purposes. His daughter is uberliberal but at least she stands behind her positions. Thats more than I can say for many others.

I don't see people questioning one type of ideology more than another, and I don't want any of them taught in the public schools.

I don't have a horse! (Have you not seen Young Guns? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiI8xNDH7... )
But if I did I could ride it right now...I'm in AZ.

Rutabagas pretty much describes what you find in WalMart some days. Most would not even know who was Sec. of State. I love it, "mendacious", perfect. I would add duplicitous to that description of the administration. What else was the "must pass it to know what is in it" quote. Want more sticker shock, go to www.americanpolicy.org and read about UN Agenda 21, which wants to outlaw private property rights, A/C, refrigeration, red meat, rewild farmland, move everyone into high rise urban settings - and this is the best, require farmers to use oxen to replace tractors. Well the donkey in White House has given his support to this Agenda 21 - as has Hillary, by the way.

Our gummint is a reflection of ourselves. Even totalitarian systems are reflections of the general politic. Our gummint is the way it is because we are the way we are. No white knight will save us from years of liberal education and propaganda.

Where are you that you can ride late at night? Hawaii? In the continental US, it's dark everywhere. Our horses are for barrel racing. My daughter is big into it.

I think I'll just go for a ride on my horse.... backwards.

Yeah...what kh said.

This is even worse than I expected! My daughter, an enthusiastic and gifted teacher quit teaching (high school English) because of all the controls, with Common Core being the final straw

Permalink wanted more posted on the Delphi Technique or Method, as it results in many people remaining silent without knowing why. RAND Corp. (Research and Development) was started by the US Air Force around 1944 to brainstorm and do research on warfare and nuclear programs. It was hoped the ideas would keep enemies at bay. The task was to assemble experts in the field and come up with ideas. As the program became successful, the fields of study expanded to include education and medicine, and today business. Much of the game playing at meetings of businessmen today are outgrowths of the Delphi Method.
They are used to make it fun as they sell collectivism and consensus rule to attendees, who are unaware they are being manipulated.
People often walk into school or city government gatherings unaware that the end goal has already been set. All that remains is to make it appear as if it is attendees came up with the ideas and reached majority consensus.
There is always a facilitator, who who has prior knowledge of the attendees attitudes. Those with wrong ideas are put in task groups with plants who will make them feel they are alone in their ideas and out of step.. Ideas are discussed and accepted or abandoned. With friction forming within the group, the facilitator joins, the out of step person is usually silent by then, and an idea is accepted. It is basic psychological manipulation. I have had task group members tell me the end idea accepted, they did not remember accepting. That is because they are under constant stress from being told they are out of step. I did attend one meeting as a reporter, where the group did not vote as they were supposed to, and the leaders changed the result, saying they met with task leaders later who agreed the (predetermined) outcome was best for the whole. Usually, however, the manipulation works and the predetermined outcome sails to adoption, and peoples opinions are silenced.
Also affecting when we speak out or not, believe it, is TV. The subtle messages sink in as we sit mindless in front of the screen, being fed collectivist ideas as the thing to think. Night after night, we get these messages, until we begin to think no one else in the world feels as we do. Result - our silence. Advertising may have been supposedly banned from using subliminal messages in stores, but they still exist in other places, including some classrooms. Children are told, "There is no I in team." Thus by grade school, they are already set up to not buck the supposed majority. Parents are told school staff know best about their children, thus parents, obviously inferior, remain silent about curriculum, when they should speak up. It has even come to the point where a conservative passion is labeled with some psychological name to discredit the person and keep them silent, esp. military vets and church members. I urged our daughter read "Anthem" at 9, Orwell's "1984" at 10, and passed out copes of "Brave New World" and "The Law" free to any of her classmates who wanted to read them. We have to keep a line of communication with our kids, and we have to fight to keep them thinking and questioning, by setting that example.

Interesting the variety of comments on this topic. Some themes emerge...

1. The validity of the material referenced - Great points here about "general welfare", "pursuit of happiness" and so on. Most of the material is obviously geared to train students to submit to the government authority because it knows best. Some mentioned the mis characterization of Lincoln which is not a new issue. That has been happening in history texts for years. The Civil War had more to do with central government and states rights than it did with slavery.

2. Politicizing of education... ie. the Obama chanting going on, as well as the issues with the referenced material. The educational establishment has been mostly trained, dominated and controlled by those of more 'Leftist' leanings for over 50 years. For a long time the education system has really pushed / taught Patriotism in the form of submitting to the government, not as being a free thinking individual as it was originally intended.

3. People being submissive when it comes to politics. All you have to do is watch what happens on the public stage to see why people stay quiet. Anyone who is a free thinker and doesn't submit to whatever the party line is, becomes vilified as a 'radical' or 'nutcase'. Look at all the things said about Ron Paul. I don't agree with every single thing he said but I agree with the majority of it and in the media he was almost always cast as the outsider nutcase. In the few cases where they agreed with him, it was after the fact when he was proven right and they were just astounded..

4. Why people don't question. Simple answer. People are not taught to think. My parents taught us to question everything and try to learn the facts of something before making a decision. We have taught the same to our kids. The problem with people understanding the constitution, government roles and so on is that they only know what they have 'heard' or what the so called 'experts' have told them. People are not taught to question and learn for themselves. When you are not able to learn something for yourself, you are certainly not going to speak up. and if you do happen to have a different opinion you aren't going to speak up because you don't know WHY you have a different opinion. There are a lot of people that are 'conservatives' or 'liberals' because of one or two issues that they have been told that group supports. In reality they don't have a clue what they believe or why. If you want to think for yourself, go out and read the Founding Fathers, or various philosophers, scientists, etc... and decide for yourself what you think / believe. Don't just think something because others tell you to. I have a friend at work who is on the more 'liberal' side of the aisle that I get along with great. The reason is in talking with him, he has reasoned thought out explanations for what he believes, in other words he's not a mindless parrot. Finally...

Think for yourselves! That is a lot of the gist of what Rand was getting at in Atlas Shrugged. Don't do or think something because others say it's right... Determine it for yourself!

Got to have the mirror or there's no chicken. Get it? Of course, you could go vegan and there your mirror would slowly disappear from osteoporosis. We can disinvolve the mirror and just use reflection. How many Angels can dance on a pocket mirror? It depends on whether you're using the 40 or 25 man roster.

Brave New World and 1984 are required reading in our childrens education as well. We also require Animal Farm. Our oldest son has remarked on more than one occasion about things he sees in the news that remind him of Animal Farm. All have noticed parallels to 1984..

Just so long as there's no mirror involved.

Solid foundations for the Bardo? I don't think such a thing exists. Experientially it's about as valid as any non nihilistic philosophy. It's kind of like Korzybski's Institute for Non-Aristotlian Thought: Examining a philosophy from the negative, semantically speaking. the foundation is the thing itself. Ain't religion grand?

Alan Watts did something similar by examining Christianity from the eyes of a Buddhist or Hinduism from the eyes of a Christian. The foundation is epistemological at best.

not enough to buy this

You'd think explaining freedom and liberty was rocket science. They SAY "freedom and liberty" only they explain it as "being fair for everyone" I could scream. I have in fact. Well..it came out more like a "uulggCK!"

It's not the size of the chicken that counts but how it tastes hot off the barbecue. The important thing to realize is that you are neither over or under the table and are, in the final analysis, the chicken.

ok, give me solid foundations for this sans mysticism

Did you see the size of that chicken?