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  • Posted by $ Stormi 10 years, 5 months ago
    Consider that it is more than genetics or upbringing at work here. People are taught by authority, from school administrations to town hall meetings, to the Federal level, to keep quiet, don't make waves. More recently, an old method developed for warfare brainwashing by the Rand Corp. (very unlike our Ayn Rand, no relation), called the Delphi Technique began to be used on citizens. It is now very common to find that technique present at school "strategic plan" meetings, and local government planning sessions. It marginalizes people in a way they fear and do not understand, if they are not trained and prepared to fight it. They separate like thinking people, have plants who inform them no one else feels as they do (too many people care about that one), and get down and dirty if necessary. Our local parent's group studied the process before we went toe to toe with the administration. They use it to pass levies, to change curriculum, to implement Agenda 21 in communities - anywhere a desired outcome with public support is sought. One of our members fell silent, saying she did not think people she knew could be so cruel. Luckily, the rest survived the process and got some concessions.
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  • Posted by richrobinson 10 years, 5 months ago
    I looked at the full worksheet. I also noticed this.

    In November 1860, Abraham Lincoln
    was elected the 16th President of the
    United States. This angered many people
    in the South, as Lincoln promised to
    end slavery, which was necessary for a
    large part of the Southern economy.


    Lincoln did not promise to end slavery. He opposed slavery but promised not to end it where it already existed. Not surprising they got it wrong.
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    • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 5 months ago
      Left out the part about how the Southern economy, with its import duties, was necessary for a large part of the nation's *budget*
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    • Posted by spark- 10 years, 5 months ago
      Actually, Lincoln indicated on many occasions, as is well documented, that he was completely indifferent to the issue of slavery. He even successfully defended the rights of a slave owner earlier in his legal career. In his first inaugural address, he said

      “I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.”

      He was, however, a believer in a strong central government, and was always very clear that the inclusion of the south was essential for the survival of the union, and this was his priority. He could only legally declare slavery illegal in the confederacy, not in the north (which by default acknowledged the sovereignty of the Confederacy). Slavery was only a moral pretext to foreign invasion.

      For the record, I’m not a supporter of slavery. It should be noted that slavery was peacefully abolished in the entire civilized world by the early 1900s. I personally believe that the nature by which the slaves were freed in the US had the effect of creating the racial divisions which still exist today, attitudes which are disproportionate to those of the rest of the world.
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      • Posted by richrobinson 10 years, 5 months ago
        Great post Spark. He did come to hate slavery as President but in a speech prior to the election he said he had no plans to free the blacks(he used the n word). The biggest mistake I think Lincoln made was selecting Andrew Johnson as his VP. He blocked plans for reconstruction and the impeachment was an unnecessary distraction.
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        • Posted by spark- 10 years, 5 months ago
          Thanks. I should clarify, though. He wasn't indifferent, rather, he was professionally impartial. Personally, he recognized the unjustness of slavery, and believed in colonization. He did not believe that blacks could integrate with society, and openly supported transporting “free negros” out of the country. He personally believed that this should extend to black slaves as well.

          To stay on point, he never promised to end slavery, he only opposed slave ownership for political reasons, and preferred reconstruction to colonization to buy more votes.
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 5 months ago
    What's with the words "fair" and "obey"? I brought home a paper a couple months ago from Kinder and it also had these words in it...regarding the Constitution. It says the people are to obey, why not say the government should obey the Constitution? (I don't remember 'obey' being in any of my school work as a kid.)
    It also says: "Promote the General Welfare: To help make life good for everybody. Having enough to eat, a place to live, being safe and having friends and fun times are some of the things that make our lives good." I think it would have been much better stated to say, "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Emphasis on 'pursuit'. You are free to pursuit what makes you happy, but you are not guaranteed happiness. That is entirely up to YOU to accomplish." What's wrong with being straight??
    Not only are we building on the entitlements of food, and housing, we're now leading them to believe they're entitled to automatic happiness...IF you 'obey'.
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    • Posted by 10 years, 5 months ago
      government officials' COMMANDS must be OBEYED
      it sounds like govt officials are kings. that is just the most oddly worded sentence.-quite chilling
      surely MOST people would not like that phrase if they read it
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      • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 5 months ago
        Amazing to me that a TEACHER reads it and then goes ahead and PUTS it on their desks anyway. At what point were we taught to NOT question what gets handed down from the 'higher ups"? I just did a quick recall of my life just now.... I'm realizing I've always been the questioner of things while my friends/coworkers took a back seat. Why is it sooo uncomfortable for some to pipe up when they don't agree with how things are being done? I really want to know where that stems from. Anybody know??
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        • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 5 months ago
          Let me tell you two stories from my alleged life (get the popcorn ready):

          In high school, we had "Government" class. The teacher would encourage "discussions" among the students. They always, well, almost always, ended up as 30-on-1 arguments (you can guess who the 1 was). I remember one argument where the entire class, in 1980, was arguing that our representatives should vote their own minds, not what their constituents wanted, because the representatives knew better than the constituents. I was the only one who was arguing that, no, they were sent there to *represent* us because we were too busy making the money for them to blow to vote for ourselves. I remember seeing the teacher sitting there smirking, silent as the battle raged on.

          Okay, Sherman set the wayback machine to 1969. Second grade, anyway.
          The entire class was given a math problem.
          When we had completed it, the teacher asked me to give my answer. She told the entire class that I was wrong (I sat there thoroughly humiliated). She had me calculate it again, according to her method. I got the same answer.

          She told the class what the right answer was (parse this sentence carefully...).
          I calculated it again... same answer.
          She finally, in exasperation, asked the class which of us was right, she, or I?
          The entire class, every single kid, said that she was right. Some of them gave me dirty looks like I was crazy.

          She then dropped her bombshell.
          No, she said, his answer is right.
          Don't assume, she said, that just because someone in power says something that they are right.

          That's an old school teacher.

          http://humanachievementinitiative.wordpr...
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        • Posted by 10 years, 5 months ago
          learned it in school
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          • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 5 months ago
            No... there's more to it. Easily intimidated. Taught not to question authority. Religion? I grew up religious so I can't make this jive. Genetic? I know a LOT of people avoid conflict and confrontation like the plague. Seems like weak character to me and doesn't seem to be related to education level.
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            • Posted by 10 years, 5 months ago
              I dunno. plenty of people willing to confront over sports teams
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              • Posted by MattFranke 10 years, 5 months ago
                And isn't that totally part of the problem with this country? People will beat and trample each other come black Friday, to get a good price on some cheap plastic Chinese crap, but they won't speak a political opinion because they don't want to offend. People get all decorated to go to a football game; but have never been to a town hall meeting. They will scream and shout and fight for "their team"; but they are completely unresponsive to reality. They get excited for their team because they have empty, meaningless lives, and the only way the can feel anything is to hold onto something fake, a distraction; because they were raised to believe that's what is truly important. But it isn't.
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              • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 5 months ago
                That's physical...not mental. They aren't questioning the other's motive or reasoning... Oh come on! You know what I mean.
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                • Posted by 10 years, 5 months ago
                  yes, but it's because of deep conditioning over the years to not confront. so after a long time you stop questioning things because you don't want the confrontation. except for sports team appparently
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                  • Posted by $ Susanne 10 years, 5 months ago
                    The whole sports thing is the socially acceptable way to blow off the pressure cooker that builds from following the artifically nice socialistic brother love norms...
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                  • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 5 months ago
                    I don't remember ever being taught that though. How is one taught to not confront? With an added hint ingredient of "other people just know better than you do" thrown in. Because that does seem to be the component that stops people. Unsure of themselves... the other person is "in charge" (of something) so they must be more knowledgeable in all areas... it's my job to do what I'm told... crap. I remember my 5th grade teacher telling us "No question is a dumb question...unless you already know the answer."
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  • Posted by Genez 10 years, 5 months ago
    Interesting the variety of comments on this topic. Some themes emerge...

    1. The validity of the material referenced - Great points here about "general welfare", "pursuit of happiness" and so on. Most of the material is obviously geared to train students to submit to the government authority because it knows best. Some mentioned the mis characterization of Lincoln which is not a new issue. That has been happening in history texts for years. The Civil War had more to do with central government and states rights than it did with slavery.

    2. Politicizing of education... ie. the Obama chanting going on, as well as the issues with the referenced material. The educational establishment has been mostly trained, dominated and controlled by those of more 'Leftist' leanings for over 50 years. For a long time the education system has really pushed / taught Patriotism in the form of submitting to the government, not as being a free thinking individual as it was originally intended.

    3. People being submissive when it comes to politics. All you have to do is watch what happens on the public stage to see why people stay quiet. Anyone who is a free thinker and doesn't submit to whatever the party line is, becomes vilified as a 'radical' or 'nutcase'. Look at all the things said about Ron Paul. I don't agree with every single thing he said but I agree with the majority of it and in the media he was almost always cast as the outsider nutcase. In the few cases where they agreed with him, it was after the fact when he was proven right and they were just astounded..

    4. Why people don't question. Simple answer. People are not taught to think. My parents taught us to question everything and try to learn the facts of something before making a decision. We have taught the same to our kids. The problem with people understanding the constitution, government roles and so on is that they only know what they have 'heard' or what the so called 'experts' have told them. People are not taught to question and learn for themselves. When you are not able to learn something for yourself, you are certainly not going to speak up. and if you do happen to have a different opinion you aren't going to speak up because you don't know WHY you have a different opinion. There are a lot of people that are 'conservatives' or 'liberals' because of one or two issues that they have been told that group supports. In reality they don't have a clue what they believe or why. If you want to think for yourself, go out and read the Founding Fathers, or various philosophers, scientists, etc... and decide for yourself what you think / believe. Don't just think something because others tell you to. I have a friend at work who is on the more 'liberal' side of the aisle that I get along with great. The reason is in talking with him, he has reasoned thought out explanations for what he believes, in other words he's not a mindless parrot. Finally...

    Think for yourselves! That is a lot of the gist of what Rand was getting at in Atlas Shrugged. Don't do or think something because others say it's right... Determine it for yourself!
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  • Posted by $ EloiseH 10 years, 5 months ago
    This is even worse than I expected! My daughter, an enthusiastic and gifted teacher quit teaching (high school English) because of all the controls, with Common Core being the final straw
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I don't have a horse! (Have you not seen Young Guns? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiI8xNDH7... )
    But if I did I could ride it right now...I'm in AZ.
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    • Posted by exindigo 10 years, 5 months ago
      I have several friends who live in AZ. I need ocean. I know desert sand is close to beach sand but I always feel something is missing. I have never seen Young Guns. I'm really not a fan of Hollywood A-list liberals. I trend more towards conservatives like Voight who I have actually worked with on "Hamlet." He was terrible and didn't get the part at all. On top of that, we had a terrible, inexperienced director.

      Part of the set was a huge staircase with a door at the top. Voight would enter and start the soliloquy. On the top of the stairs he would say "To Be." then he would amble down the staircase mugging all the way. But the time he got to the bottom and uttered "Or not to be." the audience consistently broke out in gales of laughter. In spite of that, the blocking was never changed. Voight can create characters and bring them to life and that is an art in itself. Plus he's a Libertarian for all practical purposes. His daughter is uberliberal but at least she stands behind her positions. Thats more than I can say for many others.
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  • Posted by $ Stormi 10 years, 5 months ago
    Permalink wanted more posted on the Delphi Technique or Method, as it results in many people remaining silent without knowing why. RAND Corp. (Research and Development) was started by the US Air Force around 1944 to brainstorm and do research on warfare and nuclear programs. It was hoped the ideas would keep enemies at bay. The task was to assemble experts in the field and come up with ideas. As the program became successful, the fields of study expanded to include education and medicine, and today business. Much of the game playing at meetings of businessmen today are outgrowths of the Delphi Method.
    They are used to make it fun as they sell collectivism and consensus rule to attendees, who are unaware they are being manipulated.
    People often walk into school or city government gatherings unaware that the end goal has already been set. All that remains is to make it appear as if it is attendees came up with the ideas and reached majority consensus.
    There is always a facilitator, who who has prior knowledge of the attendees attitudes. Those with wrong ideas are put in task groups with plants who will make them feel they are alone in their ideas and out of step.. Ideas are discussed and accepted or abandoned. With friction forming within the group, the facilitator joins, the out of step person is usually silent by then, and an idea is accepted. It is basic psychological manipulation. I have had task group members tell me the end idea accepted, they did not remember accepting. That is because they are under constant stress from being told they are out of step. I did attend one meeting as a reporter, where the group did not vote as they were supposed to, and the leaders changed the result, saying they met with task leaders later who agreed the (predetermined) outcome was best for the whole. Usually, however, the manipulation works and the predetermined outcome sails to adoption, and peoples opinions are silenced.
    Also affecting when we speak out or not, believe it, is TV. The subtle messages sink in as we sit mindless in front of the screen, being fed collectivist ideas as the thing to think. Night after night, we get these messages, until we begin to think no one else in the world feels as we do. Result - our silence. Advertising may have been supposedly banned from using subliminal messages in stores, but they still exist in other places, including some classrooms. Children are told, "There is no I in team." Thus by grade school, they are already set up to not buck the supposed majority. Parents are told school staff know best about their children, thus parents, obviously inferior, remain silent about curriculum, when they should speak up. It has even come to the point where a conservative passion is labeled with some psychological name to discredit the person and keep them silent, esp. military vets and church members. I urged our daughter read "Anthem" at 9, Orwell's "1984" at 10, and passed out copes of "Brave New World" and "The Law" free to any of her classmates who wanted to read them. We have to keep a line of communication with our kids, and we have to fight to keep them thinking and questioning, by setting that example.
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    • Posted by Gringuita 10 years, 1 month ago
      http://www.eagleforum.org/educate/1998/n...
      Here's an article that summarizes the Delphi Technique and suggests ways to thwart it: "Three steps can diffuse the Delphi Technique as facilitators attempt to steer a meeting in a specific direction.

      Always be charming, courteous, and pleasant. Smile. Moderate your voice so as not to come across as belligerent or aggressive.
      Stay focused. If possible, jot down your thoughts or questions. When facilitators are asked questions they don't want to answer, they often digress from the issue that was raised and try instead to put the questioner on the defensive. Do not fall for this tactic. Courteously bring the facilitator back to your original question. If he rephrases it so that it becomes an accusatory statement (a popular tactic), simply say, "That is not what I asked. What I asked was . . ." and repeat your question.
      Be persistent. If putting you on the defensive doesn't work, facilitators often resort to long monologues that drag on for several minutes. During that time, the group usually forgets the question that was asked, which is the intent. Let the facilitator finish. Then with polite persistence state: "But you didn't answer my question. My question was . . ." and repeat your question."
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      • Posted by $ Stormi 10 years, 1 month ago
        Thanks for the extra information. Here is a link to a talk on Common Core given in Ohio. Pretty much paints a picture of what we are facing.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8iPKIBI...
        I can remember sitting and listening to the leaders of the strategic plan team babble on and around the subject. There was noting to do but listen politely, then, say, which I had to do several time, "Now, could be get back to the question I asked." They always thought they would get away with it, amazing. The definition of stupid is doing what doesn't work over and over.
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    • Posted by Genez 10 years, 5 months ago
      Brave New World and 1984 are required reading in our childrens education as well. We also require Animal Farm. Our oldest son has remarked on more than one occasion about things he sees in the news that remind him of Animal Farm. All have noticed parallels to 1984..
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  • Posted by Herb7734 10 years, 5 months ago
    I he same old socialistic fallacies. I don't know what they think that the nation is comprised of. Rutabagas? It's people, you idiots! Like their untrue assertion that only 5% will have their health care canceled. Even if it were true, that's still over 17 million people. Seventeen million policy holders plus family members, probably more like 30 million. This has got to be the most mendacious administration in the history of America, maybe even in the history of the world.
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    • Posted by $ Stormi 10 years, 5 months ago
      Rutabagas pretty much describes what you find in WalMart some days. Most would not even know who was Sec. of State. I love it, "mendacious", perfect. I would add duplicitous to that description of the administration. What else was the "must pass it to know what is in it" quote. Want more sticker shock, go to www.americanpolicy.org and read about UN Agenda 21, which wants to outlaw private property rights, A/C, refrigeration, red meat, rewild farmland, move everyone into high rise urban settings - and this is the best, require farmers to use oxen to replace tractors. Well the donkey in White House has given his support to this Agenda 21 - as has Hillary, by the way.
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  • Posted by exindigo 10 years, 5 months ago
    Forget Common Core, the problem is much deeper. CC is only a symptom and besides, districts can adopt CC to fit their curriculum. My son and I voted in the last general election at a grammar school. The voting place was inside the school auditorium and we voted while school was in session. We walked towards the voting place and walked by a classroom where we heard the following being led by a teacher with the class responding: "Who's the best?" "Obama." "Who will lead us?" "Obama." Who will take care of us?" "Obama." It went on but by that time we were out of earshot. On our way out an elderly woman commented on the chanting from the classroom. She thought it was so dear for the children to become politically aware.
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    • Posted by $ Susanne 10 years, 5 months ago
      Nothing like a little voting day opportunistic polling place political pressure, dont'cha think? I wonder if it was the teacher's idea to do this politicking during voting to sway the vote to the appropriate sociocommunist way, or if the teacher was directed to hold the rally at the behest of someone up the foodchain?
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  • Posted by $ Susanne 10 years, 5 months ago
    If my kid brought home such drivel as "schoolwork" I'd disenroll them... all kinds of socialist dogma lurking in that worksheet, and I can only imagine how bad the rest of them are...
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 5 months ago
    This reminds me of public schools teaching writing with religious tracts. They say they're not establishing a religion, just teaching writing with what just so happens to be religious material. Similarly, they should not teach a political message in writing lessons. Of all the CC stuff that people don't like, this seems like the worst.

    I really think those who see a secret plot to corrupt the youth are crazy. Stuff like this, though, makes it look very questionable.
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    • Posted by exindigo 10 years, 5 months ago
      Why so afraid of religion? A small minority adopt religious training as they grow older so it doesn't seem to hurt as much as publicly educated liberals hurt us. Political thought seems to find a lot of reinforcement whereas religious thinking is always questioned. Kids challenge everything anyway and religious tenet seem to be the first to go. Maybe it should be the other way around and socialist tenets should be challenged just as strongly. It just isn't the case.

      As the Vietnam war ran down, a guy had to spout liberal stuff just to get laid. People are more lemming like than not.
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    • Posted by 10 years, 5 months ago
      I've never seen the religious thing in public schools. Other than the Pledge...which I'm not for either-but do you have an example cg?
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 5 months ago
        This was long ago. It was common for public schools to teach writing through Bible tracts. People thought it wasn't establishing a state religion, but it was really pushing the boundary. I have a negative reaction to the thought of teaching religion in school, and I have the same thoughts about some of this stuff in CC.
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        • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 5 months ago
          Can't recall the name right now, but there was a famous philosopher who learned to read... only backwards and upside down because he learned to read while his father recited from his Bible...
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        • Posted by 10 years, 5 months ago
          I have never experienced the like. interesting. is this some sort of WI thing?
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 5 months ago
            No. I read about this happening over 100 years ago. The example occurred to me b/c I know I wouldn't tolerate them teaching religion in writing lessons, so I shouldn't tolerate political opinions in writing lessons. (I assume that's what this is. It was supposed to be a writing lesson, but it contained messages that sound political.)
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            • Posted by 10 years, 5 months ago
              ok. so you are talking about the primers of yester year. I agree they were quite religious.
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              • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 5 months ago
                yeah, really sucked, that's why the country is so much better now than then. I mean, y'know, for most of its history, steeped in Christianity. That's why it never went anywhere until the socialists' assault on Christianity began about 70-80 years ago.

                Why, yes, that's sarcasm, thanks for noticing :)

                I remember the scene from "The Cowboys" where John Wayne walks into the school house where they're teaching kids to read using the J.C. Penney catalog.

                How they learned to read without iPads is beyond understanding....
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      • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 5 months ago
        My objection to the pledge isn't the "under God" part; it's the "indivisible" part.
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        • Posted by 10 years, 5 months ago
          my objection is the pledging to an inanimate object
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          • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 5 months ago
            btw... the pledge includes "...and to the nation for which it stands".

            I'm now curious... what is your word worth? If I get your signature on a contract, can I rely on you to fulfill your part of the arrangement?
            (cause, y'know, a contract is an inanimate object...)
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          • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 5 months ago
            We're not talking about this.
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51kAw4OTl...

            Btw, while listening to the drivel in that link, check out the comments, especially the one I just added, which begins, "I pledge by my life and my love of it..."

            I encourage everybody who's feeling ornery right now to post their own Galt oath in the comments :)
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          • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 5 months ago
            Mine is the standing like subjects and chanting in unison. Children do not understand what they're saying and what they're being taught about what they're saying lacks plenty and ties in with that 'obey' horse shit.
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            • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 5 months ago
              One of the first lessons we had in 1st grade was breaking down the pledge and learning what it meant.

              But that was back when...
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              • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 5 months ago
                You'd think explaining freedom and liberty was rocket science. They SAY "freedom and liberty" only they explain it as "being fair for everyone" I could scream. I have in fact. Well..it came out more like a "uulggCK!"
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  • Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 10 years, 5 months ago
    I am so glad I don't have kids. Trying to fight this indoctrination must be exhausting for parents.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 5 months ago
      I hope I'm planting the seeds of critical thought now when they're 3 and 5. If they get critical thinking and math, I don't need to fight specific indoctrination. They'll have the toolkit to detect propaganda.

      Also, I won't send them to a public school, and I will not tolerate a school getting too out of hand with this CC stuff.
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      • Posted by $ Stormi 10 years, 5 months ago
        Good for you. However, be cautiously optimistic. They love the "There is no I in Team" mantra. They include values clarification in both English and Health classes, they do lessons they are forbidden to take out of the classroom, so parents may not see them. Some uses group therapy on grade levels, hypnosis, and more. At one time the NEA teachers' union put out a book titled "Change Agents Guide", available only to teachers. It taught how to disarm parents' objections to some the the goofy curriculum changes.
        Buck up, you have a big task coming your way. Good luck.
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 5 months ago
          I think I'm easy-going, but I'm already suing my kids' last school. It was over more quotidian stuff. I don't believe this ideological war stuff, but I'm always on alert for this type of baloney. Their parents are "change agents", and we want them to be to, assuming change agent means "gets $hit done".
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FORMATTING HELP

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