"What ever happened to ... individual responsibility?"

Fraud is force.
Even Rand's Atlantis needed courts.
Engage in fraud and expect to get sued.

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"What ever happened to buyer beware ... And yes, people who've been taken in by a scam bear more responsibility than do the scammers"

Oh, really?
I really doubt that a defense of "Caveat emptor" is going to hold up in a fraud case.

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"That's why you can't buy a hot cup of coffee anymore."

BS!
There is a reasonable expectation that coffee is hot.
Therefore, the lawsuit against McDonald's that their coffee *was* hot was frivolous.

There is a reasonable expectation that education is not Marxist indoctrination.
Therefore, any lawsuit that one's education *was* Marxist indoctrination is not frivolous.

Are we creating a class of unemployed college graduates and perpetual students who will be the backbone of the final socialist revolution, just like the Muslim Brotherhood did in the Middle East?

They are persistent, aren't they?
You would think that their taxpayer teat would be enough.
But such is the way of Marxist criminal enterprises, your money is never enough for them.

The overall quality of a person is also part of the problem.

Our universities now teach remedial math.
Why in the world is someone who needs remedial math in college?
And why in the world should the taxpayers have to underwrite that debt?

What ever happened to buyer beware and individual responsibility? I fully understand and appreciate that much of higher education has become a state run (socialist) business and that as a result, Socialists have made strong inroads into much of the administration and content of the system. But it remains that the basic purpose of education is to help individuals learn how to learn. It also remains that a degree has never been any more than a door opener for a job or career.

And yes, people who've been taken in by a scam bear more responsibility than do the scammers, in any inter-action. Scammers can't exist or succeed without ignorance and intellectual ignorance. Otherwise you're trying to support the idea of socialism, that government should take the responsibility off the individual's shoulder, kiss the booboo and make it all better. That's why you can't buy a hot cup of coffee anymore.

Please see this response.

http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/17...

I have no interest in suing. My point is I do not donate with countless requests that I do so. Now I'm happily retired. To hell with that college and the prison I worked at.

An interesting paradigm shift. Years ago, when one went to a University (and graduated), he (and she, in today's parlance) learned to think independently, to apply skills and knowledge to life and to adapt. Of course, no one was guaranteed a particular job or ability, but the overall quality of the person was assured. Obviously, not anymore.

There are a lot of people whose degree "did not translate into making a decent wage".

That's not the point.

Did your classes teach you 1) what was advertised, or did they teach you 2) Marxist critical theory of what was advertised.

If 1, then the field wasn't profitable.
If 2, then there was a bait and switch involved.

My wife has a bio degree and works as an office manager.
People have to make choices, and she would never think about suing her university because of her current job, and I certainly wouldn't agree if she did.

But, she also received her university education in *biology*, not in Marxist critical theory of biology advertised *as* biology.

Agreed.

My college degree did not translate into making a decent wage. Had to find another way and did with the Alabama Department of Corrections, a full-blown career I never liked. But now I'm living laid back off a state retirement plan and social security.
I was stunned when that college had a student worker phone me to request a donation within two weeks of my graduation. How about letting a guy get on his feet first? Dang!
I don't know how they found my email address. When I see that college on my phone caller ID, I do not pick up.
So how much in donations have I ever given that college since I graduated in 1973? Not one red cent.

So, again: when a product which is advertised (preparation to advance in a chosen career) is not the product which is delivered (Marxist indoctrination), this is not bait and switch? This is not fraud?

And when it is knowingly perpetrated on *hundreds of thousands* of families who believe the glossy advertising brochures and who go into mountains of debt to purchase the bait and switch, and whose debt because of that bait and switch is ultimately underwritten by us the taxpayer - this is not to be considered a criminal enterprise?

If anyone would like to follow a field of study of their choice, even if it be straight up Marxism, should the taxpayer have to finance that debt?

The University system today exists as a bait and switch product which endebts the American people, indoctrinates and maleducates the youth, holds the taxpayer ultimately responsible for the debt default, and finances the radical intelligentsia left...

And my suggestion that they have their asses sued off as a way to call them out and hopefully get them to cease and desist is "heading ever further into a Marxist way of life"?

Ok.

A major problem has been the failure of high school guidance counselors and colleges to provide meaningful guidance as to employability in many fields. Hence graduates with a Bachelors in Psychology, in a field requiring an advanced degree, or many others in the liberal arts with limited prospect of employability. Few students or their parents are independently wealthy, and can afford spending thousands of dollars for an education offering meaningful employment. prospective college students need meaningful counseling, clearing showing them the economic consequences of their choice of major.

"considerable research paid by Government."

I believe that this would be a valid line of attack if we had representation with testicular fortitude.

There is no reason which I can think of other than cronyism in which taxpayer money should go to support a Marxist indoctrination center.

To place blame upon an institution (however ridiculous or ineffectual it is) is once more escaping the responsibility (and the right) to make one`s own decisions, to prosper or fail at one`s own efforts. (This includes decisions.) If we were able to sue universities for (fundamentally) not providing "employable education," then we would be once more heading ever further into a Marxist way of life, where our right to choose our own paths in life is denied. Before you know it, kids could be "assigned" careers right out of highschool, with university funding to go with it.

Would you want to live in a world where you could no longer choose your own field of study?

The freedom to choose comes with an inevitable price: the price of facing up to your own bad choices.

+1 on point 1.

"Many of the college graduates do seem to be averse to business and many are incapable of independent thought. They can only function given specific rules, in a "McDonald's" type of an assembly line. Then, of course, if you have such an assembly line, why bother with a college graduate?"
BINGO!!!

"since they are succeeding in their unadvertised goal – Marxist indoctrination"
BINGO!

+1

BINGO!
+1

The school I was in was quite representative.

It was one of the many schools nationwide which promoted and showed the Frances Piven webcast which kicked off the Occupy movement.

If you have yet to see the rampant Marxism, then I suggest you get up from your advertising brochures and *GO TO A CLASS*!

My first semester my English prof was *FIRED* for giving both sides to the Global Warming Debate.

But, please do believe everything those glossy brochures claim.

1. Remove taxpayers from student loan business
2. Universities make loans
3. Loans are dischargeable in bankruptcy

Say bye-bye to degrees in post-industrial critical feminist poetry, good riddance to *-studies programs, hello to dramatically reduced tuition, hello to year round university and hello to students who graduate with knowledge that will get them a good job.

Many of the college graduates do seem to be averse to business and many are incapable of independent thought. They can only function given specific rules, in a "McDonald's" type of an assembly line. Then, of course, if you have such an assembly line, why bother with a college graduate? I actually find that the dumbing down occurs much earlier, somewhere around middle school. In my opinion, current non-technical degrees are not worth the time and money spent and are often a detriment to a person’s development. Often, it is just a way not to have to work for another four or five years. Perhaps it would be difficult to sue the schools for false advertising (after all, who are the judges?), since they are succeeding in their unadvertised goal – Marxist indoctrination. Perhaps a good way to deal with this is not to pay for the kid to go to "college," but to let them earn their own way. Thus, they will mature much faster and choose the courses that are worth their money and effort.

I think the whole higher education system is messed up. There was a great article some years past lamenting the fact that the cost of a college education was going up way faster than inflation. The article went on to point out that the main reason was all the government subsidization. Pair that with the expectation most parents and educators have to move people down the pipe and you end up with a glut. It's an artificially high supply without a corresponding demand - especially when you factor in the numbers of useless degrees of which there are whole lists.

Here are my suggestions for improving higher education:
1. Eliminate Pell Grants and Federal government subsidies for universities. Stop feeding the monsters which are Education Boards and their voracious appetites with taxpayer funds. Cease all Federal funding for education - starting with the Department of Education. Also, get rid of all of the Federally mandated programs such as Title IX, etc. in education. Let the colleges and universities run themselves.

2. High Schools should be pushing vocational schools and technical training as viable alternative paths to a college degree. Most construction workers, truck drivers (which we rely on), and many others do not benefit from a formal college degree. Many technical/IT degrees are similarly worthless because of the pace of technology (been there, done that) and would be better off as internships or apprenticeships.

3. Allow banks to manage student loans according to job placement, i.e. let them deny a loan to a student studying something where there is little or no demand (such as ___ studies).

Personally, I choose the University of Hard Knocks. I attended the University of Wisconsin in 1978 and attended just over 1 year, majoring in Chemical Engineering, until I ran out of money in 1979. No loans, no grants, just what I had saved up from shoveling snow, raking lawns, 3 different paper routes and other odd jobs. From there, moved to Denver for employment opportunities. Worked various jobs, each one better than the last until I got laid off in 1980 and Denver was in a recession due to various factors. I joined the Navy and got an education in electronics, which was a hobby for me. I did that for 21 years and got to travel to a lot of different places around the world, lived in a couple, Belgium, Iceland, the Philippines and various places around the US. Got out in 2001 and went back to work, again getting better opportunities at each new job. Currently working for utility in NM and enjoying living in a small town again. But will retire in 2 or 3 years and am constantly searching for my Gulch to spend the rest of my life in.

Have trouble endorsing lawsuits as a remedy for something that can be evaluated and decided on objectively and without external pressure.

If there is a problem it isn't the universities, it is the accreditation boards and the funding streams for universities. Few universities focus on undergraduate programs, where a vast majority of the value to industry lies.
Why? Because universities get graduate funding from industry, and considerable research paid by Government.

I'd rather forgive student loans than hand-out money for nothing, but don't see how this makes sense. Some kids and their parents reviewed the options and made an investment in education. I'd really like to know how many unpaid loans are for liberal arts vs engineering. When wasn't it obvious where the jobs were?