An absolutly on point post. Both the husband and the wife must submit to the marital relationship. Femanism has done women no favors by diminishing the traditional roles in a marrage. They generally over focus on the wife submitting to the husband and totally miss the fact that the husband must submit to the marrage itself.

Ha. Maybe that is why I am not married!

While I am happy by default, there have been times when I have been driven into unhappiness. These were difficult times for me and my attitude was 'find what is wrong and fix it - or at least change a variable'. In both cases, 'fix it' ultimately involved telling a guy that our relationship was over. (In both cases it was intended to be an enduring relationship.)

I applaud your tenacity, but it falls into the category of 'an aspect of others I do not understand': file and remember that this is how they work.

I am very glad that your endurance was vindicated and your relationship life is all that you wish.

Jan

Jan

No worries about the question but I have a direct answer for you...I hear this sort of thing all the time...life is short, you should be happy and do what you want.....bullshit!!! When you get married it is for better or worse. You have ups and downs and you work at it. Bailing out will not make any difference, you will be the same and you will not have overcome any adversity....this makes you less able to over come the next adversity in life and in spite of what you hear, life is long and there is a lot of adversity and if you never learn to overcome things [together in the case of the marital relationship] you will always bail on everything when the going gets a little tough.

evlwhtguy -

My question is, again, not intended to be personal but to reflect what pirate has just said about relationships in general. Life is short and I do not understand why people accept an environment that is making them miserable if they can change it. I once read that, "People prefer the security of misery to the misery of insecurity." and I wonder if that is, sadly, the explanation. This is a productive list to query about such matters because it contains a preponderance of folks who accept responsibility for their own lives and for their own happiness. But we are also still 'people' with the instincts of our species. I wonder if our pair-bonding is so strong that it trumps happiness.

Jan

I wonder the same thing Jan. Why do people stick some place that is just miserable. If it's for the kids, then you are teaching them that being miserable is the norm and don't bother seeking happiness. A true Hank and Lillian situation...or Cheryl and James.

My BW & I lucked out. We married young, had kids, and should have divorced about 100 times. But, we grew. We were fortunate that we met and became friends with an Objectivist shrink who helped us a lot. It took a while on the life roller-coaster, but we've been together 59 years & counting. We had to work to achieve hero status, but we made it. I can almost feel your happiness through your reply. I hope you have nothing but continuing love for each other and remain fortunate to have a person to share life with.

may the bluebird of happiness fly in your sunroof,
and stay with you as the future gets better! -- j

experience plays a very large part in success, sir! -- j

Hey, Herb! my wife is a retired superheroine, and
I am a retired superhero -- works for us!!!

and you're exactly right about the foibles (great choice
of wording!) -- we consider them humorous and
worthy of celebration, like the 63 degree bedroom!

ours is the second and final marriage for both of us,
and the experience which preceded our teaming up
was worth a fortune. -- j

if mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy! -- j

This could easily be switched around, too, as far as I am concerned. A wily wife, making the best of a situation, has been known to cater to a few of her husband`s quirks and fancies. When he is happy and satisfied, perhaps her life is easier and perhaps her husband is motivated to reciprocate the favours. However, it is not very PC or modern to suggest that a woman might serve her own rational self interest by catering in any way to a man. ;)

Didnt suck for the whole 28 years. There were also 3 children to think of. Plus...you just cant give up, I worked at it consistantly while it sucked, came up with coping strategies and ended up with a good result. The key to dealing with such situations is coming up with a coping strategy that mskes things bearable while at the same time giving the spouse posession of some of tbe pain. Here is another consideration.... I have known many guys over the years who bailed and devorced. Number 2 usually ends up being the same and you are right back in square one...but with a hell of a lot less money. Stick it out and work on it!!!! It is cheaper.

What I wonder is why you put up with that relationship for 28 years. I am not trying to be nosy or actually solicit an answer from you, evlwhtguy, it is just that this is a puzzlement to me - I see it around me in other couples too.

Jan

If I had only known, maybe I'd still be with wife #1, or maybe wife #2, but then again wife #3 is a charm.

The combination of two people in a permanent relationship is not an easy task. Since no two people are exactly alike, it requires a degree of give and take for both persons. It also needs a willingness to accept the foibles of the other partner. Ideally, two heroes marry each other and live happily ever after. Never happens. Personally, I think one should not make a permanent commitment until one has experienced a lot of what life has to offer, and one's self-esteem is very high. When finding someone of equal self-esteem, -- to paraphrase: I will offer you my most valuable possession , myself.

At last, a public acknowledgment of the validity of that meme. Thanks, Harmon!

I can tell you from direct personal experience that this is more of a 2 way streetthan the authors suggest. My wife of 31 years did a complete about face 2 years ago and went from being a royal pain in the ass who seemed to take every opportunity to make my life miserable, to being a superstar of a wife. As a result both of us are a heck of a lot happier. She now has value to me and I go out of my way to do anything I can reasoably do to make her happy.

Thank you.

My sincere condolences.

That contract deals primarily with childrearing, secondarily with probate--what happens to the possessions of either partner when he or she dies. Without that marriage contract, the State might "inherit."

I knew that, during the eight years and nine months I was married. (I am widowed today.)

If men are smart, they don't need a government contract to dictate their actions with a rational partner. Marriage has become a legal trap to control individuals.

Hmmm.
Sounds less of Betty and Bob and more of Bunkum and Balderdash.

Femanist BS, IMHO