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Debt Slavery

Posted by straightlinelogic 9 years, 8 months ago to Government
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 7 months ago
    Which is why I advise anyone who plans to make a major purchase, a car, a house, renovations, etc. Do It Now! When the tower crumbles and money is worthless, at least you'll have the stuff. And you certainly won't be able to afford luxuries. It doesn't matter if the bubble pops next week or next year or next decade. Nothing will be as cheap as it is right now. But (and it's a big but) that only works if you're fairly debt free. If you aren't get there as fast as you can. If you are, be sure to reserve some cash or cash substitute. Also, if the bubble bursts so completely that nothing's left, stuff may become more valuable than money.
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    • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 7 months ago
      Yes, Herb. I am trying to work my way around to having a reasonable setup for that plausible future. I second your advice: the things to buy are things that will increase the chance of survival if money is worthless.

      I am not so certain that it is necessary to be debt free, however: I recall my mother saying that during the Great Depression, anyone who made ANY payment on their mortgage (even a dollar a month) was left alone by the mortgage company...because there were so many people who could not pay anything. So I think my version of 'be debt free' is to 'invest in yourself' and try to be able to pay something on your debts during crisis, so that you are not in the target zone.

      Jan
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      • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 7 months ago
        That is true. I should have been more specific because I was thinking more in terms of credit card debt and such. In any case, with our country owing dollar amounts so astronomical that they can't even be imagined, all past principles of economics fall by the wayside and we are in Wonderland but one not as logical as Alice's.
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  • Posted by Retired24-navy 9 years, 7 months ago
    If BIG changed dont happen in Nov and again in 2016; then there will be hell to pay as the welfare is reduced due to lack of funds and new payments to illegals. The welfare bums all 47% of them will riot and burn as in Missouri and CA a few years back.
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  • Posted by $ arthuroslund 9 years, 7 months ago
    The low interest rates are a great incentive to accumulate debt in another way. The coming currency inflation will for all practical purposes, wipe out the debt.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
      Debt collapses are inherently deflationary, which will make the debt burden that much heavier.
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      • Posted by $ arthuroslund 9 years, 7 months ago
        I think that the central banks will continue printing money forever. Japan has been doing it for over 20 years. Even a small rate of inflation accumulates like continuous compound interest.
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        • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
          Japan has been printing money for over 20 years, and battling deflation, not inflation. It is hard for those of us who grew up in the inflationary 1970s to wrap our minds around, but what we have now is credit inflation, and when it reverses, my hypothesis is that we'll be looking at full on, Great Depression style deflation. Central banks will be powerless to stop it, just as they could not stop deflation in the 1930s.
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          • Posted by $ arthuroslund 9 years, 7 months ago
            Sorry, it is hard for me to understand how printing money would cause deflation. It sounds a little Keynesian to me. The policy of printing money to stimulate the economy has never produced anything but inflation. The inflation simply helps the government get out of debt. Why not join the bandwagon?
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            • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
              The key is what is money and what is debt. Currency is money, electronic notations the Fed gives member banks for their bonds (called monetizing the debt, but that's actually a misnomer) is an exchange of Fed debt for Treasury debt. That debt can and does behave like money when the banking system, corporations, and individuals are not overly indebted, expanding via the well known multiplier effect as banks loan out excess reserves. However, when an economy reaches debt saturation, the process goes into reverse as debt contraction, the opposite of debt inflation. Fed created reserves, so-called money, lies inert. Debt contraction of course puts downward pressure on prices. This is what happened during the Great Depression.
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  • Posted by ISank 9 years, 8 months ago
    Thanks for sharing. It's a sad statement of America today. And even sadder that so many of our peers go along with the "in the run we're all dead" foolishness.

    Two ways I try to help my students wrap their minds around that continually ascending figure is tell them Labron James should pay off the debt than I divide his salary by the debt and they learn that he needs to make his current salary for over the next 3000 years.
    Well that's not going to work so I target the top 1% and show them an article (wsj or biz week) and the best figure I can come up with is the top 16,000 families have a total wealth of 6 trillion.
    We can take all the $$ from the top 1% and still would not even come close to paying the beast off.
    Math is off the top of my head from a lesson I did last school year.
    Have a great day!
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago
      "so I target the top 1% and show them an article (wsj or biz week) and the best figure I can come up with is the top 16,000 families have a total wealth of 6 trillion. "
      This is a great lesson. Even if you target the top 10% and want them to pay for most of the military, everyone's healthcare, everyone's education, service the debt, it just doesn't work out. And you run into the issue that people at the bottom of the top decile aren't _that_ rich, so it seems harsh that they should be paying for the decile below them. Okay, so may be 2nd and 3rd deciles should pay their own way an the top decile should pay for the bottom six. The more you dig into it, the clearer it becomes that it doesn't work. It's not about politics; the numbers don't work.
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  • Posted by ISank 9 years, 7 months ago
    And please allow me to add...
    Next summer my Dear Wife and I have penciled in a cruise that ends in not-so jolly old england ( capital E rejected) and my plan if there is a J M Keynes statute, is to throw an egg and hit that idiots form in the head and celebrate I am alive and he dead.

    I am in a big way in favor of state conventions demanding a balanced budget amendment. But something tells me....the leviathan must eat, the leviathan will find a way.

    Hey let's have some fun!
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 9 years, 8 months ago
    Oddly enough our personal lack of debt, minuscule really (including whats left of our 15 year mortgage), will not save us from the impact of our government and our neighbors financial foolishness.
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  • Posted by $ arthuroslund 9 years, 7 months ago
    The above scenario would probably fit into a picture of people sitting around in a futuristic fantasy world with embedded electronic devices. Inflation will get out of control while higher and higher taxes are required to fund ever expanding entitlements. The decline will be exacerbated by poverty, cultural decay, loss of borders and language degeneration. We can expect the US to drift into a decline until Washington D.C. is sacked
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago
    Fiscal deficits would be easier to deal with now rather than waiting until they cause a crisis. I think we'll wait until it becomes a mini-crisis to make the decisions.
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    • Posted by servant74 9 years, 7 months ago
      We, as a nation, don't see deficit spending as an issue. Financing anything is putting yourself in servitude to whomever is holding your debt.

      Yes, I have had loans in the past, and have also used them poorly at times, and wisely others. (Wise is using someone elses money at rates I can make money from, or to cover an 'opportunity' where I can save more by financing it - hopefully short term - than the interest/overhead cost me). (Poorly was when I got into credit card debt in the late 70's - but getting it paid off was a breath of fresh air, and I don't want to go there again!) - Right now, no loans and don't want any if possible.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago
        @servant Yes! Many people (not people on this site) borrow for consumption rather than investment and/or borrow too much. Maybe we shouldn't be surprised that our elected representative do the same thing.
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