wellsir, I see that I must withdraw my offer, since I
have inadvertently crossed a line. my apologies. -- j

p.s. I used Freemake video downloader, and
Freemake video converter -- came in as an MP4
and converted "to DVD" -- that was the option
used. maybe personal use is ok.

p.p.s. I have sent a memo to YouTube asking for
permission to give out free copies. will update as
a reply may be received.

I'm not positive, but I think that action violates the YouTube Standard License, section 4A, here:
https://www.youtube.com/static?template=...

I was able to download this video and convert to
DVD for your tv's DVD player. will mail a copy
to any gulcher who will promise to show it
to children who might not ever learn
the real story, otherwise.

no cost. DVD-R, 40 minutes. -- j

NealS: Great car! Great sticker! From the humidity and insects of the South (Mississippi) to the jungles of Vietnam ...umhhh. As far as acquiring experience- you made the right decision and lived to use it.

db: thanks... this was better than the movie!
The closer you get to the truth the more liberating the experience.

as mimi says, RL....

Those astronaut wives were women of character
hey! where have you been lately?

Apollo, brings back a lot of memories. Back in the early 60's I was a Rocket Scientist (really just a technician) at Rocketdyne Test Facility in the Santa Susana Mountains over looking the San Fernando Valley and Simi Valley. We tested all of North American's rocket engines there from the littel thrusters (1.5 lbs thrust) up to Apollo's Second Stage J2 Engine (~240,000 lbs thrust) of the Saturn V Vehicle. The first stage, the F1 Engine (1.5 million lbs thrust) was tested up in the desert at Edwards AFB. I loved that job, driving up that little mountain in my '56 T-Bird, especially when I could leave the hardtop at home. A few years later I got this "Greatings for Uncle Sam" letter. My boss told me he could get me a deferment if I woud relocate to Mississippi. It scared me, I didn't particularly like heat, humidity, and bugs so I elected to take my chances with the Army.

I went to Basic, AIT (Heavy Weapons Infantry), OCS (so I could afford my house payment), spent a year as Asst S3 in a towed 105mm unit at Fort Sill, and a year in Vietnam as XO of an 8-inch and 175mm Self Propelled Battery. Did I make the right choice? Other than the truth about heat, humidity, and bugs (plus snakes, scorpions, and few tigers) I think I did. Even at my old age (from 24-27) while in the servcie I learned a lot about people and about the world. I think it's something every American should experience, but then again I'm probably prejudiced.

PS - My ex wife traded that T-Bird in on a Biscayne while I was over there. I cried when I got a letter from the new owner wnating to know what had been done to it. He was doing a full professional restoration. Two tops (hard and soft), Yo-Yo Kit, Spinners, Portholes, Tuck and Roll, Telescopic Steering, damn I wish I had it back. But then again I finally got my Corvette a few years ago at age 70 (me, not the Corvette). And it's got an Atlas Shrugged sticker on the back. http://lh5.ggpht.com/-d9cPvHvnJmkuSEkddH...

Inaccurate portrayals of events are routine in Hollywood, of course. I love both of these films and own copies of both of them. However, it is a major irritant that both of these movies impugn the character of men who are dead and therefore aren't around to set the record straight.

More her superstition than his I think. Still a nice way to get a new vest, AND 'if wife ain't happy, ain't nobody happy' justifies having wife do a new vest if she wants to! ;-)

I don't have the numbers to dispute, but from what I saw it was a net win. Spin Offs generated more net new development than did the 'exploration' part. The same technologies (from Teflon production to micro-circuits and hardening, let alone medical studies and techniques) may have been eventually developed, but the moon program specifically caused an acceleration in the development and deployment. A comparatively little amount of 'basic research' was done, but lots of development. Reduced many of the deployment times for many of the technologies by 10 to 20 years or more. Again, just my thoughts, with no empirical data to base it on.

The only thing welfare did that was 'good' was to hand out the stockpile of gov't cheese and clean out the warehouses we really didn't need. LBJ did that. They just kept up the handouts past the already subsidized cheese state (or anything else that was long term perishable or had to be stored because of price supports).

Incredible but true.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/article...

It shows the true spirit of engineers and inventors. Unlike Hollywood, which constantly wants to show inventors as socially awkward buffoons,working on idiotic ideas.

This movie show that engineers and inventors are heroes who accomplish amazing things.

Gee, you mean Hollywood did NOT do an accurate portrayal of historical events? Say it isn't so!
Actually, I thoroughly enjoyed (and own) both movies, along with a large number of other fictions and fantasies. I don't look to Hollywood for fact, just entertainment.

It was incredible from a technology point of view, but it was not good for the economy - better than welfare, but still a net loss.

Agreed for the most part. NASA was given a 'space race mandate' in '60, and it was a national priority (it was a boon to the national economy even with the pork involved, let alone national pride, as well as being a boon for the military, spook, communications/business, and scientific communities).

Bush 43 tried to give us a new 'mandate' but it didn't hit all the right chords to resound through the nation. BO has done his best (probably un-intentionally or unknowingly, but that part doesn't matter - I don't give him much credit for being more than a figurehead, but he might be) to discard NASA as irrelevant.

I don't know (haven't followed that closely) the NASA/Muslim link you suggested. If it is true, this is another BO program that boondoggled to be something irrelevant from BOs perspective.

IMHO, NASA needs a new 'moon mission' - a large goal with more than minimal funding and wide base support from individuals, scientists, and politicos. It must have a national goal other than 'just pride' in mind. 'Just defense' projects haven't flown since the '50s when ICBM bunkers were built. The Interstate Highway System (FDR started, but was credited mostly to Eisenhower) was a defense system that has had HUGE payoff to the public both directly and commercially (while being more or less still good for defense, depending on who you ask).

If the new 'moon mission' is Mars, Saturn, Alpha Centauri or wherever, we still need a national (and even international - but that is harder to deal with - check out the ISS) goal that is 'big' to accomplish as a people.

We couldn't do this again today for almost any amount of money. Too risk adverse.

One of the geek type 'makers' I have followed over the years has been de-constructing some Apollo era custom circuit boards. This maker is an electronics engineer by training. She is highly impressed with what she has seen. Some of the basic technology used then isn't being done now, and getting 'space rating' for any equipment has been very expensive both then and now.

Back in the Apollo era, vehicle technology could be compared by the $/lb, and still can be. Think mid '60s, $1/lb for a car ($3000 for a 3000 lb car), $10/lb for many aircraft - was not far off, and spacecraft was considered to cost about $100/lb.

Today, roughly 50 years later with inflation, cars are $10/lb (cheap 2000 lb car for $20K), 1200 lb personal aircraft for $120K is not unusual, so we can extrapolate toe $1000/lb for spacecraft doesn't seem to far fetched to me. A 100,000 lb spacecraft costing $100Million isn't to far off, and possibly low. The russians are making $$ sending our 150# astronauts into space for $80Million each (but that does cover all costs, just like we have to cover with any transportation means). We seem to be going for quite a bit less for 'non-live' cargo especially that don't need to be retrievable, like the re-supply ships we have beenb sending, but I don't have the numbers currently available.)

Fivedollargold isn't sure we even have copies of the schematics for those marvelous, reliable engines. NASA did try to reconstruct the second stage engine, but decided they were "overpowered" for their needs.

To be fair, NASA was caught in a political "draw and quartering" of sorts. Bush Jr told them to set Mars as their primary goal. Obama doesn't care about space exploration. And Congress just wants to divide up the pork. The NASA model worked in the sixties when everyone was on the same page. It doesn't work today. To make matters worse, Obama has politicised the agency as he has done with most, if not all, other Federal agencies. He appointed an administrator who immediately tried to link NASA with the Muslim world.

Yes, a great teaching tool. Teamwork, but also the principle that throwing more resources at a problem doesn't fix the problem faster.

They brought in a small team that was already familiar with the domain of the problem. Then they asked capable people to do super human things (problem solving wise). Multiple groups worked on different aspects to gt a solution that really worked.

I have seen similar things done several times in my career in business. Where 'adding resources' beyond those that the team can quickly and logically assimilate just makes for to many cooks in the broth kind of problem, and nothing gets really accomplished.