What are the Foundations of Quantum Mechanics?: Video

Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 8 months ago to Science
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This is an excellent video that discusses four theories on the foundations of quantum mechanics and it is some of the best explanations I have seen and it is not a dry video. I have pointed out that there are a number of problems with the Copenhagen Interpretation of QM, see http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/37.... The video presents four alternatives to the Copenhagen Interpretation. They are the De Broglie–Bohm theory (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Broglie%...), the many-worlds theory also known as the Everett interpretation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds...), the spontaneous collapse theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghirardi%E2...), and the QBism theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_Bay...). These ideas were presented with respect to the famous double slit experiment. The video mentions that Einstein was unhappy with the CI, but so was Schrodenger. Here are my thoughts on them, what are yours?

1) De Broglie–Bohm theory
I think this is better than the Copenhagen Interpretation (CI). However, it does not appear to provide any significantly different predictions and requires an additional equation, which makes it problematic.

2) Many-Worlds theory
The other panelists point out a number of problems with this interpretation, but my problem is that it violates conservation of matter and energy, because it requires an infinite number of universes and each event requires infinitely more universes.

3) Spontaneous collapse theory
I did not think this was very well explained. It does appear to solve the measurement problem however, but other than that I do not think it is promising.

4) QBism
I think this may actually be worse than the CI.


Other Thoughts:
In the double slit experiment when we are shooting one electron at a time, we do not consider that the detector is made up of atoms that also have a wave function and therefor a probability of interacting with the free electron. I am not exactly sure how this would change the interpretation of the double slit experiment with single electrons at a time, but it would suggest that the position of the electron may not be as localized as the experiment suggests. Another problem with the single electron double slit experiment is how do we know we are shooting a single electron at a time? If we know this for sure, then we must be measuring it in some way which would affect the experiment. If we don’t know this then we don’t know that one of the free electrons does not make two dots on the screen or no dots on the screen. Again going back to the limits of our detector. In order for a dot to occur, the free electron has to cause an electron in an atom to change state. If the free electron is truly a wave then it might cause a single dot, because of the atomic nature of our detector. However, you would also expect that a single electron might cause two, three, or more dots if it were a wave or no dots at all.
Personally I think we will eventually find that all matter is really waves. We will find that the probabilistic side of QM is a result of these waves being spread out. Point particles of charge cause all sorts of problems, including infinitely intense electrical fields.
Feynman did some work on the wave nature of matter. Carver Mead has done some work in this area as have many others and I am not talking about string theory, but as yet there is no comprehensive ideas in this area.


All Comments

  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 6 months ago
    You had _better_ argue for morality without faith. A dominant cultural adherence to a morality of reason and individualism is required for political freedom, which had been the trend from the Enlightenment despite those who paid lip service to religion as a foundation. The monopolizing of morality as altruistic sacrifice based on faith as the very meaning of morality is killing us. Collectivism is for those who take altruism, which cannot be defended rationally as the standard of morality, seriously. The pursuit of life, liberty, property and happiness is antithetical to the moral dogma of human sacrifice as the good.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    One can argue reasonably against the second half of John Adams' statement, "Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith." However, you can't reasonably argue with the first half. The liars have succeeded in undermining our liberty, as is their goal.
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    • ewv replied 9 years, 6 months ago
  • Posted by 9 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    One of the problems in the AGW debate is that the prophets are so willing to lie. Many of them have said that volcano's do not spew out that much CO2 and other greenhouse gases.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    In fact, I do a comparison of the global warming potential associated with the Mt. Saint Helens eruption from the 1980s with the impact of "manmade" global warming. Most of the students come in thinking that global warming is way overhyped. That comparison is the clincher.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Volcanic activity indeed does produce lots of ozone-depleting molecules. There is no question about that. Man-related "global warming potential" is dwarfed by a volcanic eruption. Given our current chemical production, global warming is no longer a serious concern.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    So...I now discount Bohr, Copenhagen never made sense to me, but it seemed so accepted that I thought it was my flawed perception.

    Have you read "Quantum Enigma" by Rosenblum and Kuttner? It is sub titled, Physics Encounters Consciousness. Fred Kuttner is my cousin-in-law, but I don't have the confidence to give a qualified opinion of it. It seems to start off at a beginner's level then moves along toward some pretty sophisticated ideas. I would appreciate your input that helps me to greater understanding of the quantum world as presented in this book.. I'm sure your time is valuable, but if you could give me your take on the book at whatever time you may have available I would be very appreciative. I must assure you that this is a request to which you should feel no qualms about turning down and I would completely understand.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Because it undermines the very basis of science, which makes things like global warming and intelligent design fit the new definition of science.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I don't disagree with you on those points, db. Free radical chemistry, and ozone reacting with CFC's has been quite well established for at least 40 years. Gas phase molecules mix readily. The difference between four different sites (one mainland US, one in Hawaii, and two abroad) have had the same concentrations of CFC-11 (freon) as each other within about 10% for the last 40 years. The mixing time for gas phase molecules in the Earth's atmosphere is < 1 year, which means on the time scale for depletion of CFC's that the atmosphere can be approximated as a continuosly stirred tank reactor. The only way that freon is depleted naturally that I know of is via reaction with ozone. It is quite possible to react CFC's over modified zeolite catalysts to hydrodechlorinate them.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    J, I am skeptical to say this least. The hysterics failed to explain how such a heavy gas would get into the upper atmosphere, lied that the ozone holes were naturally occurring events, and the ban happened as a result of a crony capitalist deal.

    I am not saying I agree with everything in these articles below, but they make the basic point. http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/02/t... and file:///C:/Users/Dale/Downloads/EIR_CFCs%20are%20not%20depleting%20the%20ozone%20layer_Maduro.pdf
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Whoa...I guess I didn't get the full implications of your post a month ago. Could you elucidate how it does that. If you have the time and inclination. That's a very bold and intense thing to say.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The free radical former, the CFC's in this case, is the limiting reagent. Global warming cries in the 1970s would have been reasonable given the CFC's. If you burn a hole in your atmosphere, then of course, the planet will heat up. However, the alarmists were then screaming of global cooling and were about 20 years too behind the curve in the global warming situation. Unbeknownst to them, we had largely fixed the problem.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I realize that many current quantum theories are pie-in-the-sky, but it's interesting (fun a better word?) to observe brilliant minds bending and twisting convoluted math and ideas in order to fit a pet theory. One has to develop a very sophisticated attitude (again - not sure it's the right word) to compare the new ideas in physics. Back to my strong point, music. Sorta like appreciating the Beatles while trying to understand Frank Zappa.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, I think this pragmatic attitude is beginning to catch up to physics and is causing big problems. See my post of Farewell to Reality.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Makes sense. I assume that in a low pressure environment plasma is less likely to recombine into stable atoms.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    However, the ozone has a half life of about 3-4 hours in the upper atmosphere and is created by some part of the spectrum of sunlight. Thus the ozone hole at the south pole during the southern hemisphere's winter is not surprising or evidence of CFC hurting the ozone layer.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I don't have any links readily known, but this is not a hard point to establish. The pressure of space is nominally 10^(-18) Pa (101325 Pa = 760 mm Hg = 1 atm), and the temperature of space as far away from our sun as Earth is is nominally 3 or 4 Kelvin. The little bit of gas that yields that pressure is constantly being bombarded with UV- and higher-intensity radiation from the nearest sun. Anyone here knows what effects UV- and higher-intensity radiation can have on solids (sunburned skin and eventually skin cancer, for examples). That damage is without the protective layer of an atmosphere. The gas in outer space is thus definitely exposed to ionizing radiation. The pressure reference is out of David Halliday's Fundamentals of Physics, 6th Edition. This is my daughter's textbook for college Physics 1.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The definitions that you listed are correct, as is the suggestion to change a theory in the presence of conflicting observations. However, you are intentionally confusing the difference between facts and either theories or hypotheses. Al Gore has also done that with regard to global warming. Real scientists are asking the questions you ask. Newton and Galileo asked these questions. Though I am not in their league, I do as well.

    The relationship between ozone depletion and chlorofluorocarbon emission was clear and easily demonstrated in a lab environment using free radical chemistry. We curtailed CFC emissions, and because CFC's have quite a long persistence in the atmosphere, it took quite a long time (25-30 years) before their concentrations started coming down enough to . Most CFC's have lifetimes in the upper atmosphere of 25-100 years. Concerns over NO (nitric oxide) and CFC's (refrigerants) are based on science. CO2 and H2O have very low dissociation constants to generate free radicals, but are in very high concentrations, so there was at least cause for concern. This concern was grossly overblown by those looters who found it to be an effective weapon against do-gooder, touchy-feely types, who then attempt to shame us into agreeing with them.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Most of the universe does consist of ionized matter. Plasma is a hot ionized gas. Most matter is ionized, but is not hot enough for me to feel comfortable calling it plasma.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The last sentence in your comment is actually a pretty solid analogy, but I agree with db that waves make a better framework.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Perhaps you are reading someone who is not being exact. In general, energy is always associated with something, even it is without mass, or between things. I guess I would have to see your example.
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