Suicide

Posted by $ jbrenner 11 years, 6 months ago to Culture
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Recently one of the funniest comedians ever, Robin Williams, committed suicide. In AS, quite a few people committed suicide. I can never support suicide. However, is suicide a logical response to an illogical world? If so, please explain.


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  • Posted by $ Snezzy 11 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes. I remember when someone asked Rand, "What happened to Eddie Willers?" she replied (I paraphrase here, but not far off), "That's for YOU to decide."

    Cherryl and Eddie are both the reader, both YOU.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    My uncle Johnny committed suicide.... I think he was in his 40s when he hanged himself. His wife had left him and taken his kids.

    He survived the Korean War, wouldn't talk about his experiences there. And I recall my mother would once in awhile call me "Johnny" by accident. Usually when around her sisters.

    Life has its ironies.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 11 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Or perhaps chemical imbalance such that he was unable to evaluate things as wisely as did yourself.
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  • Posted by $ 11 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    My dentist cousin committed suicide. On the outside, he seemed like one of the happiest people I knew. A month before he committed suicide, he told other family members that the grind was getting to be too much to him. I didn't find this out until the funeral.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I have a friend who used to tell me that. I only saw him get truly angry at me twice. One of the times, when he said that.

    I won't give him a chance to say it again, but my response would be, "... in this case, a permanent solution to a permanent problem."
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  • Posted by $ 11 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm glad AR had it in the book. As for the movies, I can see reasons for and against having Cheryl Taggart in the movies.
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  • Posted by $ 11 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    This issue is one of the reasons I do not consider myself an Objectivist. Nonetheless, I would not force someone to live or die against his/her will. I just could not willingly choose death.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You do so well in the first paragraph, and then bury it in the second.

    There's alone and there's alone.

    Lance Clayton: "I used to think the worst thing in life was to end up all alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is ending up with people who make you feel all alone. "
    - Robin Williams in "World's Greatest Dad".
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Big word, "can". A lot to hang a third of a lifetime on. Is hope rational?
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  • Posted by mckenziecalhoun 11 years, 6 months ago
    Ayn Rand's own philosophy might be called borderline nihilistic, in that instead of dealing with society is and bettering it, there comes a time in her view to let the patient die and remove what feeds it.
    It's a quality of life issue.
    At what point do you pull the plug?
    Most people do not realize that they give as much importance to their mental self-image as they do to their real self. Their mental self-image can be brought into question, and if secure and based on reality, all they are confronted with is the facts they already know; example:

    A) "You're fat."
    B) "I know."
    A) "Err...well, you're stupid, too!"
    B) "Nope, know that one's not true."
    A) "Well, I have a knife and I'm going to use it!"
    B) "POLICE! HELP!"

    Those who are basing their self-esteem on what they aren't, who have built an imaginary self are often confused about what a real threat to themselves vs. damage to a false self-image;

    C) "You're fat."
    D) "Am not!"
    C) "Fatty, fatty, fatty."
    D) "Leave me alone, it's not my fault."
    C) "And you're stupid!"
    D) "Go away! Leave me alone!"
    ...
    D) "What's the point in living...".

    All that has been damaged, over time, is an image the person repeatedly refuses to let go of. A truly stupid person rarely kills themselves, because they can fool themselves easily. An intelligent person repeatedly picks at their self-image because they cannot reconcile what they want with what they perceive. They spiral between fooling themselves and facing a reality they refuse to embrace.

    E) "I am fat. I am responsible. What are you going to do about it? If you can't, can you live with it? Of course you can - it won't kill you.

    What troubled Robin? Don't know.
    But unless his life was in danger by health or violence issues, he killed himself unnecessarily because we don't have the means yet to systematically explore and deconstruct self-image due to OUR insistence on embracing self-esteem as an essential of our self-image.

    That's another subject.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I read it in Fantasy and Science Fiction Magazine, 1978? Maybe 1980.

    That's before it was expanded. I never read the expanded version, just the part ending where he wins the war.

    The last is not exaggeration. I wish it were. I'm trying to make it so.
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 11 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    As they say, 'Suicide, a permanent solution to a temporary problem.'

    I, as you have found myself at that precipice.
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 11 years, 6 months ago
    Suicide is most often an illogical response to illogical perceptions of the world- not to an illogical world. The world and reality is always logical. Learning to understand what causes the misperceptions is the answer to what may appear to be an illogical world, whether the perceptions are illogical or the processing of correct perceptions are illogical.

    In too many ways, our current society of unrealistic expectations, ingrains in some minds a rejection of the expectation that natural life WILL provide failures, losses, and pain from time to time and fails to prepare the rational mind to overcome such or to know that success only comes after learning the lessons of failure. Note the reported increases of teenage suicide in the 20th century.

    An incongruity that no one seems to have resolved to date is that the most suicides by % are Dentists.

    Euthanasia on the other hand may very well be a logical response to an inevitability of a known, unbearable pain and suffering to come.
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  • Posted by Fountainhead24 11 years, 6 months ago
    Not logical so much as desperate. Some very smart people who had a perceptive understanding of the world around them and were thereby driven to suicide because of the sheer hopelessness of it all. Very sad when we lose the best of us because of the sad state of affairs that the rest of us don't see.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 11 years, 6 months ago
    Depression is viewed as a mental illness so perhaps Robin Williams (always admired him) made an insane decision that God can overlook. I was once in such emotional pain that I thought about it but was afraid of going to hell for the murder of myself. That would definitely work out to be far worse pain, wouldn't it? (Would have missed a lot since then too).
    Raises a question. Do captured spies who face Gestapo-level torture face hell when they bite government issue cyanide pills? I submit they do not. Why? You save lives by not ultimately spilling all your beans.
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  • Posted by Lucky 11 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I like this view, these emotions. I especially like the last sentence, typical H. exaggeration!
    I think H. should read "'Ender's Game" by Orson Scott Card, w.r.t. the type of character called 'Speaker for the Dead'.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 11 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, Cheryl and Eddie represent all the rest of society. Without them and how they are treated and realize what has happened, it's just a story of the titans and the evildoers.
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  • Posted by teri-amborn 11 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Up here in the valley we've had multiple elderly get drunk and drive their can into the nearest lake or river in the middle of winter.
    Despair...
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  • Posted by teri-amborn 11 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    My Mother was forced to suffocate to death care of scleroderma...it hardened her lungs.

    Toward the end I wondered: "Why can't we just give her an overdose of heroin?"

    NOBODY should be forced to die that way.
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