‘8 Mile’ and the Power of Logos

Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 weeks, 2 days ago to Culture
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"Inner cities in late 20th century America degenerated..[]. Violent street gangs like the Crips, Bloods, and MS-13 formed to protect their communities even as they terrorized them for profit, just like the barbarian tribes did over 1,000 years earlier."

This is what city life does to all people but even more so to those poor and under educated.

"The disaffected minorities who made up these gangs felt that the social, legal, and economic structures of mainstream America would not protect them or provide them with opportunities for advancement, so they created their own parallel society based on loyalty and violence."

But something different happens, The Logos is used instead of physical violence: "Instead of actually murdering people,...[]... rhyme, meter, assonance, and other poetical devices to elaborately threaten to murder people."
Might we call that "Real" Hate speech? absent the physical animosity.

"Other civilizations have followed the same progression. Beginning in the fifth century, Scandinavian, Gaelic, and Anglo-Saxon tribal groups all developed a tradition of “flyting,” a poetic contest of threats and insults very similar to a rap battle. In fact, one scholar has even suggested that American slaves may have picked up the practice of flyting from their Scottish owners and that “the dozens” (an informal African-American insult contest often seen as a precursor of the rap battle) could represent a fusion of flyting with those slaves’ own African musical traditions."

"The logos is the spark of divinity that makes civilization possible, enabling us to bind ourselves with laws, contracts, and constitutions, to have elections instead of wars of succession and rap battles instead of brawls. Given our society's current inability to engage in rational discourse, a renewed appreciation for the logos as a shared commitment to seeking and articulating truth could be our only hope."

As I read this piece, a present day correlation occurred to me...is this what the left has been doing...Engaging in Political Rap, threatening violence, impeachment, a total take over with no real substance, obstructionism, with no real solutions>
I dare say, that in contrast, Rappers, how ever disgusting and lack of musicality apply the logos to their benefit more effectively than the left.

The Political Rap of the left, spits out it's nonsensical diatribe, without rhyme, without a beat, without a chorus of background singers that relieve us from the repetition, but just as disgusting and violent as rap, abet without any point or redeeming quality nor any moral to the story.
SOURCE URL: https://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/8-mile-and-power-logos


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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 2 weeks, 6 days ago
    The disconcerting thing to me is that we are on the verge of an illiterate generation. You can dictate a text on your smartphone, and have the responding text read to you by your phone. Communication by acronym (LOL, e.g.) or emoji eliminates the verbage all together, becoming a kind of pigeon lingo to convey thoughts without reliance on knowing the words. The communication becomes incomplete, without nuance, and vulnerable to misinterpretation.

    Switching points, the African slaves already had their own form of "flyting" or combat by insult. The TV miniseries "Shaka Zulu" shows how relatively benign the battles between tribes were, relying mainly on the exchange of shouted insults and the occasional spear thrown at no one in particular. The victor was usually the tribe that fired the last insult. Things didn't get nasty until Shaka introduced the iklwa as a stabbing implement used in close combat.
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    • Posted by  $  2 weeks, 6 days ago
      Language, spoken,.. is what brought the voice in one's head, once the spoken language took the form of writing, eventually, the metaphor was born bringing an awareness of self...take either of these forms of communication away...might the newest generations find themselves only in their heads with a voice they do not recognize and no sense of self?

      I think I shared an informal study I did with about a 1000 teenagers, asking if they had a voice in their heads, asking if they could rehearse a speech in their heads without moving their lips...more than 50% said they had No Voice in their heads...completely silent....They could only describe themselves by what they had done, not by what they thought or aspired to...also, not one of the silent ones use the personal designation "I". Most used "We", some used "me" , others used no designation at all.
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  • Posted by  $  exceller 3 weeks, 2 days ago
    One of the videos on the site is titled:

    "Good Grammar in Text Messages Might Make You Look Like a Jerk

    Research shows that people have grown accustomed to informal, sloppy text messaging. Will this erode our writing skills?"

    Really? It makes me shudder every time I see these "messages".

    I don't think it counts as a plus when you send an email loaded with this "grammar" to a hiring manager.
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    • Posted by  $  3 weeks, 2 days ago
      Editing isn't what it used to be either...so many mistakes seen in every day articles.
      Not that any of us could throw rocks but self editing is a very had thing to do perfectly. But, grammar is atrocious too these days...something I had to relearn when I started writing.
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      • Posted by  $  exceller 3 weeks, 2 days ago
        Yes.

        People don't read any more, which means they rely upon the pronounced word not the spelled one. What makes things even worse, they dictate their letters and messages to Siri, Alexa, etc., "who" transmit and send them.

        The result, as can be expected, is the decapitation of grammar as we know it.

        I know of a guy who was writing an essay on guerilla warfare as an assignment in school. Throughout the body of the essay he managed to write "gorilla" warfare. Don't know what grade he got on it.
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        • Posted by  $  3 weeks, 2 days ago
          Writing and spelling is already confounded by the way we pronounce words as I have learned.

          I am always complaining,..we should spell them the way we pronounce them OR pronounce them the way they are spelled...some words and names are already unpronounceable...everyone should get on the same page here.
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          • Posted by lrshultis 2 weeks, 6 days ago
            If you think English is hard to spell from the pronunciation, I have been refreshing the little that I learned of Russian back around 1964 in an intensive Russian course where I found that it was near impossible for me to go from the pronunciation to the spelling due to the way letters are sometimes changed to other letters when before or after some other letters plus having a soft sign and hard sigh charaters. It all sounds the same to me. It is easy to pronounce a word from the spelling because it is nearly phonetically pronounced due to the reformation of the language in the first half of the 1900s. The Japanese also reformed the language so that it could be written in roman letters for foreigners and also the two phonetic sets which are used in adding new words to the language augmented the Chinese type ideograms.
            Russian is hard do to having to do too much work because of the six case declension of nouns, pronouns, adverbs, etc. Just like I learned in Latin. English does not need much more than context to indicate the six cases, nominative, accusative, genitive, dative, prepositional, and instrumental.
            As for spelling from pronunciation, I had several look ups to spell a number of the words above. It seems to get harder as I approach 80 next February. For me one of the most important inventions has be the spell checkers such as the one in this forum.
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            • Posted by  $  2 weeks, 6 days ago
              But even the spell check is wrong a lot of times or it does not recognize the different forms of the words we use...so I write in a brief sentence the word I want to check the spelling in a search and it gives me the correct spelling in spite of how I spelled the word or how I intend to use that word I am looking for.

              More than 1/2 the time, I was correct and spell check was wrong.
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              • Posted by lrshultis 2 weeks, 5 days ago
                I was thinking of the more rudimentary spell check used when replying here. When a word comes up underlined, I just highlight the word and right click on it, which brings up a list of possible spellings. Sometimes I end up checking the results given with Wikipedia to get the right form of a word and also to sometimes to hear the word or name pronounced.
                To hear the pronunciation of a word and to pronounce a word has been difficult for me all my life. For example, when I was kindergarten age, I would hear 'little lambs eat ivy' as 'little lambs adivy' or 'my country tis of thee' as my country tissavy'. The male line of my ancestors all seem to have had that problem. Probably some kind of inherited verbal dyslexia.
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                • Posted by  $  2 weeks, 5 days ago
                  I have a similar problem with music lyrics and people the speak too fast or with poor pronunciations...most times it's their inflections while speaking.

                  You reminded me of a Beach Boys song. Thought : "when daddy takes the T Bird away" was "Connecticut achievers way"...LMAO...never lived that down.
                  In short, I feel your pain.
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      • Posted by  $  25n56il4 3 weeks, 2 days ago
        Darling, what do you expect? I was horrified when my six year old great child said she could only read her 'sight' words! I asked my daughter what, and she said, 'They don't teach reading or spelling like we learned'. My mother was a grammar teacher. These poor youngsters can't spell and no one told them the 'spell checks' aren't that accurate. Sell or sail? Can't differentiate!
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        • Posted by  $  3 weeks, 2 days ago
          Wow...sounds like the next aberration of: "Look See".
          I went to school during the transition from Phonics to look see...that is what caused me to rarely write again until 2008.
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        • Posted by  $  Dobrien 3 weeks, 2 days ago
          Hi N,
          You will find the answer here. https://youtu.be/69HqxE74P5w
          Peace to Q
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          • Posted by  $  25n56il4 3 weeks, 2 days ago
            Okay 'D' don't give me that DNA stuff. I had mine done at a Private Lab and that 23 and Me thing. Both came back '100% Western European". Now what can I assume from that? I am going to try that National Geographic thing like my son did. His came back very interesting. I am beginning to believe that red hair, green eyes, and RH negative blood really means you are an alien!
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            • Posted by Kittyhawk 2 weeks, 6 days ago
              You should log in to 23andme and check your current results. They keep updating, and even specify the region or city your DNA is likely to come from now, in some cases. YMMV, of course, if your genes are more unusual.
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          • Posted by  $  exceller 3 weeks, 2 days ago
            Yes, the deliberate dumbing down of America.

            The principle is the same: deliberate lowering of standards. It is a much more difficult task to raise them.

            Applies to economic, intellectual, moral, ethical standards. The socialists/communists are fully aware that raising standards flies in the face of the free stuff scenario they are dangling in front of the masses. You can't throw free stuff on them to buy their votes and at the same time demand they work, better themselves and labor for their own betterment. Oh, no!

            When the human race is gradually sinking back to Neanderthal, make sure the process does not stop and you still enjoy your elite position.
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 2 weeks, 6 days ago
    First, I'm going to correct the writer of the essay in regards to his statement " Only the God of the Bible creates a world in which logos, not violence, underpins reality." Zoroaster created a monotheistic religion that was a philosophy of life 4K yrs ago. Even though the Persian leaders who adopted it spread the religion by force. Very similar to Islam. The idea of logos was the hallmark of the Gnostics. There is some argument that Gnosticism was a growing movement prior to Christianity. Though, there is a minister in New Jersey that has numerous Youtube videos teaching that the Bible is a Book of the Mind (Bill Donahue-Hidden Meanings). I have have been reading Bernard Cornwell's historical novels " The Saxon Tales" which demonstrates the taunting between the Saxon army and the Viking combatants before they engage in battle. Maybe, our country is degenerating into tribal units. I wonder how far down the road this scenario is going?
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    • Posted by  $  2 weeks, 6 days ago
      I am of the opinion, having read and applied, (as well as anyone can) the works of Julian Jaynes: breakdown of the bicameral mind (actually Brain) and I have come to the conclusion that the New Testament was all about the Mind, the conscience and what to do with it;..seeing that the mind and a conscience was a relatively new thing in mankind's evolution at that time, In essence, going from a bicameral brain (old testament) to a unicameral brain, connected to his mind and the attainment of a conscience.

      In many respects, much of mankind (60% perhaps) still has yet to make that transition and the weak minded can still be manipulated away from their minds and back into their bicameral brain, rather easily.

      It's a sad state of affairs, indeed.
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  • Posted by ArtIficiarius 2 weeks, 6 days ago
    Communication itself breaks down when the tokens in intercourse carry differing semiotic loadings. Without common understanding of utterances and text, no form of civilization can endure.
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  • Posted by  $  allosaur 2 weeks, 6 days ago
    Reading about that 8 Mile flick interested me dino until I read that it "revolves around rap battles."
    Me dino hates rap wid a passion!
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  • Posted by  $  3 weeks, 2 days ago
    "The ancient Greek philosopher Heraclitus wrote, “The logos is common to all.”"

    It's the only spark of the divine we humans have...use it wisely.
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