When will the pole shift and micronova occur?

Posted by  $  Dobrien 3 months, 1 week ago to Science
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This is the latest from a series The Diehold Foundation has archived. The evidence he has presented throughout is compelling.

And here is part B https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dtFwzbJ...
SOURCE URL: https://youtu.be/iJPWnZjuUbA


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  • Posted by  $  Commander 3 months, 1 week ago
    Dobrien.....have you vetted this source?
    This is the foundation website that states "I'ts" objectives. http://www.dieholdfoundation.com/inde...

    Goal 1: This sun cannot go Nova by the nature of observation of our present sciences. Nova: Definition is one solar sun exchanging matter with another in a binary system.
    The timescale stated is too short to express the cyclic biomass / climate relationship.
    "Glass Beads".......What is the specific composition of this item in question that makes it of a telltale nature?
    Goal 2: Believe anomalies are a causality of a former civilization? I really question the authenticity of the remarks. A technology capable of creating planetary anomalies would require a large population base to support the endeavor.....and then it would have to be completely, 100% biodegradable, that it leave no trace our present explorations on this planet would not unearth.
    Goal 3: All this information can be found in global, consistent, studies in geology.
    Goal 4: See "3".
    This fella is relying on opinion and rhetoric.
    I'll offer a much more tangible source.
    "Timefulness
    How thinking like a geologist can help save the world" Marcia Bjornerud; Lawrence University; Appleton, WI
    I do disagree with her subtitle, but it becomes evident in context, that she describes preservation of the biosphere that allows us life.

    Should this pique lengthy dialog......I'm sure we could find someplace along Cliff Road....
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    • Posted by ewv 3 months, 1 week ago
      Vogt is worse than nothing but opinion and rhetoric. He's a charlatan who only sounds "authoritative" on youtube to the gullible. He is no scientist and his philosophic view of science is worse than ignorant, as amply demonstrated in his books and promotions overtly mixing what he calls 'science' with mysticism and bizarre 'deductions' for his speculations. https://www.galtsgulchonline.com/post...

      He was trained in business administration, not science. He owns (or owned) a company selling document scanners, which he claims as expertise in another of his lives: a conspiratorial Birther.

      http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/0...
      http://www.vectorpub.com/pdf/Notice_o...

      His 501(c)3 "science foundation" is likewise a fraud, serving as a promotional name and a tax write-off for his own personal activities, which is why you find so little about it beyond his crackpot web site promoting his crackpot books and "research".

      The last of his "foundation's" annually required form 990s is for 2015, the rest are missing. He lists the "officers" as himself, "Susan Vogt" (his wife?), and Vic Ardelian, all with no title given. Total income was $820, with assets of $14,120 and liabilities of $15,424 (same as 2014). This is not a science foundation.

      https://www.guidestar.org/profile/91-...
      https://pdf.guidestar.org/PDF_Images/...
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      • Posted by  $  Commander 3 months, 1 week ago
        I was thinking about getting him hooked up in PET scan and interviewing him......to see if this is narcissism or biological psychopathy.
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        • Posted by ewv 3 months, 1 week ago
          Being such a subject would be the closest to science he would get. Whatever his psychology and neural correlations, he's another random, nutty, aging gadfly, no doubt sincere in his rationalism, but with no understanding of science and no objectivity. He picked up enough of the terminology to be dangerous to the gullible who don't understand it but are 'impressed'.

          You would think that people interested in a forum for Ayn Rand's philosophy of reason would know better, first by realizing that they don't understand his techno-babble themselves and therefore should not jump on his band wagon, and second by seeing his explicit philosophical nonsense that he claims is the basis. How can a rational person take seriously his claims of "figuring it out" from a belief that "information" is the basis of physical reality and 'scientific discoveries' from decoding sacred text?
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          • Posted by  $  Commander 3 months, 1 week ago
            This whole situation grieves me. A man disturbed, or with a learning disability, or some sort of psychopathy?...... I picked up How Children Fail and How Children Learn by John Holt, 1964 and 67 respectively. I wonder now, what kind of "learning" this poor fellow experienced. To withdraw so far from a provable, plausible reality that the resources of humanity offered up freely, is frightening. And then, that others would enjoin in this altered "reality" in purchase of the products offered is another level of insanity. Most of all, looking at a broader spectrum of what Vogt has managed: The participation of commercial advertising that supports his "validity" as legitimate, just by "their" proximity, as I saw on the YouTube.......Shameful.
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            • Posted by ewv 3 months ago
              I see that there are new editions of Holt's books on education that seem worth looking into.

              But whatever the psychological problems and the general state of education of a fruitcake like Vogt, his crackpot theories and the few who follow them are primarily a philosophical return to unreason: Vogt seems to have had a normal education at the university level, though he is a dedicated charlatan uneducated in science.

              There are occasional Creationist activists that crop up who have more of a science background than he does. (See for example Nelkin's The Creation Controversy: Science or Scripture in the Schools.) The bizarre versions of "science" on behalf of religious myths cannot be entirely attributed to a failed education.

              The doddering old fools like Vogt are not important. There are always such fruitcakes lurking in the shadows, and they are safely ignored. The difference now is that anyone can publish on the internet -- and they do.

              Far more important than Vogt are the instances of anti-reason in the general culture and its anti-science consequences, partially encouraged by bad philosophy within science itself.

              Ordinarily when you happen to see something like Vogt's concoctions you laugh at it and dismiss it. More annoying here is that the pollution on this forum is amplified, tolerated, promoted and followed on a forum that is represented as for Ayn Rand's ideas of reason, which the dominant crackpots verbosely infesting the forum have no interest in and are oblivious to, just as they are oblivious to serious scientific thought.
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              • Posted by  $  Commander 3 months ago
                And all of this affront to reason is a complex develop-mental situation.
                For millenia we've enjoined in cyclical patterns of conflicting beliefs. This is so evident in observation of daily encounter and in exploring our cultural histories. Only recently have "we", in scientific, methodological manner begun to identify trends and tendencies in learning and human perceptions.....quantifying. Reading Holt, and having my youngest employee express the 4th suicide in his peer group, of approximately 25, within 5 years,prompted me to the actuarials of suicide, ADD, ADHD, Aspergers....a plethera of developmental disorders.

                The swing upward appears to begin with the relegation of child care to outside sources, because we need more income to support our "programmed dream" of conspicuous consumption beacause the TV says we "need" to keep ......etc.

                By your expressions here I know you have the ability to extrapolate. I must away. I'm being pushed by circumstance of my creation. Moving domicile 9 months ahead of plan, closing a business of 30 years. beginning new exploration into authorship beyond Rand's "Objectivist's Ethics".
                It's all because I care about Humanity. The rarest form of life this planet has developed so far. I'll practice, to the best of my abilities to not enjoin in rhetoric without having some sort of solution based expression.

                I have greatly appreciated our exchange.
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              • Posted by Lucky 3 months ago
                I read both of those books by John Holt. Very nicely written, understandable and convincing. I expect they are still valid.
                Would not be acceptable to today's marxist chatterers who control education.
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                • Posted by  $  Commander 3 months ago
                  These works have been sitting on my shelf for 20+ years. I read them synchronously, chapter by chapter, only one week past. Last Tuesday, interacting with my two employees, I noticed, "text book model" resistance to learning, problem solving in each.....
                  The following day the younger showed how manipulative he could be in getting me to lead him to the answer of another situation.....and then he "sabotaged?" another project by putting on an opposite feature to a part he was making.....cost me a $400 sale due to delay.
                  Still valid? I'll say yes. Holt's observations coincide with Morris Massey's lecture on values development in his video "What You Are Is Where You Were When"
                  I was exposed to these concepts starting at 7 years of age through 13. Dad was a maverick when it came to teaching status-quo methodology. He spent 37 years regularly getting ejected from inflexible "education" systems because he taught enthusiasm for learning rather than the "structure" that was expected.
                  This Vogt fella is the perfect tool of conflict creation for those who seek power and control. Look at what it's done in this environment......

                  These are the things that compelled me to look at my "programming" as I grew up. I've spent the last decade questioning every facet, that comes to mind, on how my values were developed and influenced.
                  The real kicker was the Objectivis't Ethics. I've found no holes in this authorship. I have found some things that will augment. Ayn did not express the emotional quotient to enjoin learning. The Joy of just being alive. And so I begin the endeavor of authorship. I'm closing down my vocation of machine shop, manufacturing and stepping into a great unknown. Because I care deeply for myself and extend this care, even to poor souls that are misguided toward this cliff of socialistic behavior.

                  I've always been an educator.....time to thrive.
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  • Posted by lrshultis 3 months, 1 week ago
    At 2:38 in the video, he states that the Earth's rotation is due to the Earth's magnetic field. A magnetic field is created by some already moving charged matter. Stop the rotation of the Earth and its core and the only net magnetism remaining would be that preserved in some magnetized matter making up the Earth's crust. Also, to stop the rotation of the Earth and reverse it would take very many magnitudes more of energy than would be available from the magnetic field of a rotating body, which magnetic field depends upon the rotation of the body which has far more angular momentum than is available in the magnetic field. Experiments confirm the conservation of energy and angular momentum, which conservations would have to be violated in any such reversal of rotation of the Earth. Perhaps he meant that the crust of the Earth would shift during the pole shift. That, too, would violate those physical conservation laws.
    Perhaps it is the lack of the application of physical laws of nature that keeps any working or retired scientists from taking that nonsense seriously. One would think that on a forum dedicated to a philosophy based on objective observation there would be many who would have a scientific view of reality. The knowledge of objective reality gained through the ages was gained by very hard rationally designed experimentation with many errors being corrected. To look at ancient artifacts, for example, and have no data on how they were produced is not a reason to believe that somehow physical laws were ignored in their production by some help by gods or super civilizations for which no evidence exists.
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  • Posted by  $  allosaur 3 months, 1 week ago
    Quick answer to the question asked by the title--
    Hopefully after I take a dirt nap at a pretty cemetery I have selected close by.
    Once threre me dino won't care if the place is covered by snow or an ice sheet.
    Gonna pay $1,500 of a plot next month after I get two cataract surgeries out of the way,
    Me dino finds it fortunate I do not have more than two eyes.
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    • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 months, 1 week ago
      Yes...good thing you are not a fly!

      Hope the surgery goes well Dino, keep us abreast.
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      • Posted by  $  allosaur 3 months, 1 week ago
        Medicare and a supplemental would have paid for it but I agreed to have them insert a special leans in place of what will be taken out.
        Hopefully, I will never have to wear glasses for the rest of my life or else just wear reading glasses.
        It's nice to have inherited some money!
        Let's see, I had to get glasses for my student driver permit at age 15. 72-15=I've worn glasses (contact lenses for a few years during my twenties) for 57 years of my life.
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  • Posted by Lucky 3 months ago
    The skills of the writers in Diehold are under-rated, they are just too eruditely woke to be adequately dealt with here in the Gulch. Instead, their and their followers efforts should be directed at the world of social and literary studies.
    I particularly recommend Social Text, an academic journal of postmodern cultural studies, the journal that published
    Transgressing the Boundaries: Towards a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity
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  • Posted by  $  Stormi 3 months, 1 week ago
    Pole or not, we are headed for a mini ice age, based on the Sun cycles, lessening of solar flares, cooling of the sun, and it's heading toward Grand Solar Minimm.
    Yes, there has been evidence of the magnetic poles also starting to shift, but for some reason, they have returned to about where they were, but they are active, and something is coming there.
    I have read other studies of the giant eruption to come at Yellwostone, whcich could send a giant body of water down the center of the USA, N to S near the heatrland.
    Whatever is coming, it will not be good, and it is not man made global wraming!
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    • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 months, 1 week ago
      The poles have not returned to about where they were...they continue to move away from where they were and moving toward each other.
      One can get regular updates from official government sites...presently moving somewhere around 40 miles a year.

      Ok, so here is the skinny...there is a (aprox)12,000 year cycle, we see this in the past with relative regularity...from my perspective right now, We can be vigilent, keep an eye on the sun and how the earth is reacting and Hope, that something has changed and we all will not be wiped out.
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      • Posted by ewv 3 months ago
        The "skinny" is that such vigilant fears are best kept in silence safely hidden under the bed along with Vogt's "science" finding the "exact date encoded in the Torah". Continuing to sound the alarm that The End is Near will only incur the wrath of your Quantum Nephlimphlams who will come for you. Keeping an eye on the sun will not help you. They come at night.
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  • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 months, 1 week ago
    Chapter Conclusion

    We have covered the mythologies of 64 different societies and tribes throughout the entire world. All of them say that at one time there was a great deluge. On this point there is no exception. Ten of these societies specifically said that the sun rose in the west and set in the east. Other societies amplified this point by saying that the sun stopped in the sky. These two points alone prove our theory that the earth changes rotation at the end of each cycle. In the past, archeologiest and scientists were not able to understand why societies all over the world mentioned this unusual phenome­non. This is because scientists had an inaccurate view of existence. With our theory of existence, we must conclude that modem man should take many of these ancient tales of the cataclysm literally. We will go so far as to say that our theory of existence is the only one that does make sense of all these cataclysm legends. Many archeologists like to think that these legends are nothing more than the product of the vivid imaginations of our ancestors, but there are two big problems with that theory. One: what would be the motive of all these primitive people in telling the same lie? We see no logical motive for over 64 societies scattered throughout the world, which had no way of communicating with each other, to tell the same lie!

    The second important reason is that many of the ancient arche­ological finds, such as the massive stone cities found in the moun­tains of Peru, the huge tunnel systems found in Ecuador, pyramids found all over the world, and the wide stone streets found in the Carribean off the island of Bimini, all prove there was a highly advanced civilization on the planet. We must be able to explain these massive construction projects with some kind of motive. We see no other motive for the construction of caves and pyramids or cities on top of mountains other than as shelters from a cataclysm that struck the earth. Over half of these societies specifically men­tion the sun as causing the conflagration on the earth and also the sun being associated with the flood. To put it very plainly, the evidence is literally overwhelming that such a cataclysm occurred approximately 12,000 years ago; but, also, the causes of this cataclysm are exactly what we theorize. []
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    • Posted by Lucky 3 months ago
      Why am I reading this ... ? .. I suppose it is good when it stops.
      A question while I am here-
      what about the mythologies of societies that were not included in the coverage?
      and 'the sun stopped in the sky'
      Now there may have been times when I could have said 'did the earth move / or stop / for you?
      Literary metaphors have their place.

      I do have a theory of existence which old male racist it may be uses the conservation of angular momentum. With that the kind of power needed to reverse the spin of planet earth if applied would not leave any evidence of anything on the surface.

      Velikovsky! I read in the fifties! Worlds in Collision, too boring for science fiction. Thousands of references that do not refer nor support statements, etc.
      The Statesman- a socialist weekly in the UK, quite dour when I read it.
      von Dainiken- if you like that sort of thing. No need to report back.
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    • Posted by ewv 3 months ago
      Please stop spamming this forum with your repetitive, multiple posts promoting religious mythologies. It does not belong here. Do you not understand that this is a form for Ayn Rand's philosophy of reason? You can believe whatever you want but take it somewhere else.
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  • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 months, 1 week ago
    And another interesting section; that of Plato and ancient Greece:

    “The Statesman,” believes that these cataclysms are caused by the earth reversing its motion.

    “There was a time when God directed the revolutions of the world, but at the completion of a certain cycle he let go; and the world, by a necessity of its nature, turned back, and went round the other way. For divine things alone are unchangeable, but the earth and heavens, al­though endowed with many glories, have a body, and are therefore liable to perturbation. In the case of the world, the perturbation is very slight, and amounts only to a reversal of motion.... But the truth is, that there are two cycles of the world, and in one of them it is governed by an immediate Providence, and receives life and immortality, and in the other is let go again, and has a reverse action during infinite ages. This new action is spontaneous, and is due to exquisite perfection of balance, to the vast size of the universe, and to the smallness of the pivot upon which it turns. All changes in the heaven affect the animal world, and this being the greatest of them, is most destructive to men and animals. At the beginning of the cycle before our own very few of them had survived; and on these a mighty change passed.” (42-p435)

    Plato, we believe, reached this conclusion after himself research­ing the many ancient records of his day, which we do not have at our disposal today. From his ancient records, he had correctly concluded that some of the cataclysm was caused by the earth changing its rotation. The pivot to which Plato was referring, we believe to be the time of the reversal. When the information that makes up the magnetic field changes polarity and crosses the imag­inary X axis, we believe that the information, from which Plato derived this conclusion, came from a previous, more advanced civilization that inhabited the planet. This will be further expound­ed upon in the mythologies of Egypt. Previous to our theory of existence, no philosopher or scientist would take seriously Plato’s contention that the earth reversed its motion; but with our Theory of Multidimensional Reality, it is but an obvious calculable con­clusion to the theory of magnetism. We again see Plato referring to the sun rising in the west in the Atreus myth. The Greek philoso­pher, Censorinus, called these periods of cataclysms, the supreme year. The supreme year marked the close and the beginning of a new world age. The Greek word, ‘kataklysmos,’ is associated with the supreme year; and it means a great winter, or what we would call the ice age. Another Greek word, ‘ekpyrosis,’ also associated with the supreme year, means combustion of the world. (3-p4l)

    408

    In Plato’s dialogue, “The Republic,” he tells us that the great year occurs every 36,000 years. (41-pl94) We can easily see that 36,000 is a product of 3 x 12,000. Evidently, some of the source material that Plato relied on was not totally complete. They knew that the time between the cataclysms had something to do with the number 12,000, but did not know exactly what it meant. Plato’s timetable is a little different from that of the Greek philoso­pher, Heraclitus (540 B.C. to 475 B.C.). Heraclitus believed that the world was destroyed by a conflagration every 10,800 years. This number is exactly like the Hindu legend, but he might have picked up the idea from them. (3-p4l)

    Again we see from the Greek legends, ample proof and historical evidence that a cataclysm occurred on the planet at the same time the sun novaed and baked one-half of the earth. The deluge and the ice age are also well covered in these Greek mythologies.
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  • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 months, 1 week ago
    Legends of the Eskimos:

    We start with the legends of the Eskimos who live in the northern­most regions of the North American continent. The legends of the Eskimos are not as concerned with the creation of the earth as are those of many of the other North American Indian tribes but there is a legend about what will happen on the earth when the cycle begins again.

    “In the course of time the waters will overwhelm the land, purify it of the blood of the dead, melt the icebergs, and wash away the steep rocks. A wind will then drive off the waters, and the new land will be peopled by reindeers and young seals. Then will He above blow once on the bones of the men and twice on those of the women, whereupon they will at once start into life, and lead thereafter a joyous existence.” (10-p303)

    What is interesting about this mythology is what it implies. Not only does it tell us that the Eskimos also know that a tremendous heat melted the polar ice caps and a flood swept over the earth, but it implies that some of their ancestors did survive the last ice age, even though we might think that they were all buried under thousands of feet of snow and ice. Somehow a few of their fore­fathers survived the last great cataclysm.
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  • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 months, 1 week ago
    Last mentioned point from the South American legends: The last point we wish to make in this section on the mythol­ogies of Central America is to see if there is any evidence that be­for the last cataclysm the earth rotated from East to West. This would mean that the sun would rise in the West and set in the East. It was mentioned in some of the previous legends that the sun had stopped somewhere over the eastern horizon. This would imply that the earth’s rotation had indeed stopped just before the flood and fire descended on the earth. There is one legend from

    342

    the Teotl Lixco Indians of Mexico which says that the sun moved toward the East, “traveling toward the East and the disappearance in the East.” (3-pll9) After the sun had stopped, they say the earth was visited by upheavals and earthquakes.
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  • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 months, 1 week ago
    Continuing:

    We would expect that the story of the event would be slightly

    328

    different in each part of the world because on one side of the earth, the sun literally cooked the earth while the people on the other side of the earth would only have noticed that the sun “went out” for a long period of time. During this time there great floods, torrential downpours. In the northern latitudes we would expect to hear stories of extremely long, cold winters. Some of the points of similarity for which we are looking in these mythologies are: Stories of strong winds; earthquakes; land masses rising and falling; the sun changing color; lightning; the sun standing still; fire coming from the sky and melting the surface of the earth; dust and debris falling upon the earth; a great flood; the oceans and rivers drying up; the sun going out; and, finally, a period of a long cold spell accompanied by torrential rains, snow and hail.

    The first mythologies we cover are from Central America. We theorize that the eastern part of the American continent was ex­posed to the nova; therefore we would expect to hear many myth­ologies describing widespread conflagration.

    Continue reading Here, if you like: http://www.vectorpub.com/CH11.htm
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  • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 months, 1 week ago
    Next:

    Velikovsky’s theory was that the planet,( Venus had passed dangerously close to the earth at some time in the past. If a planet is the actual cause of these polar reversals and ice ages, then either Venus or another planet has been passing this earth in that manner for the past billion years. If we consider the sophisticated tele­scopes in use today, astronomers would certainly have noticed any planet having an orbit that would come in proximity to the earth.

    Donnelly’s theory was that the earth had collided with a comet thousands of years ago; and this comet was responsible for the destruction of Atlantis. But he cannot explain the hundreds of polar reversals and ice ages that occurred in the past. His idea of a comet hitting the earth could explain some of the other phenom­ena mentioned in the mythologies, but it cannot explain scien­tifically how the polar reversals occurred, especially repeatedly. Neither theory can explain why many mythologies specifically mention that the sun sent fire down to the earth. Both men felt that this mythological description was not to be taken literally, even though they themselves took the rest of these mythologies literally. Being bound to old scientific theories of what the sun is and how it functions, neither man could accept that the sun had novaed in the past. They thought that if the sun had somehow exploded, it would have caused too much heat, thus totally de­stroying the earth.

    Because the sun is not a solid mass, the only part that reaches the earth is the gaseous outer shell of the sun.

    In this section, we will present pertinent mythologies from all over the world and of every major civilization. The descriptions of some civilizations are quite explicit, which is usually due to that civilization’s having mastered writing and other forms of commun­ication-and thus a more accurate chronicle of the event was handed down over the thousands of years. More primitive civiliza­tions remembered the cataclysm, but they associated it with animal or human characteristics. This may have been because the event occurred about 12,000 years ago, and the descendants of the survivors probably had a difficult time understanding the literal description of what had happened; so they distorted the descrip­tion of the event to fit their limited frames of reference for ease of understanding.
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  • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 months, 1 week ago
    First paragraph:

    Mythologies of the World



    Many mythologies have a definite basis in truth. In many ancient mythologies there is a recurring theme of a past destruction of the earth; we have found this theme in every major civilization of the world. The events may be described in slightly different order or in slightly different terms, but the main idea remains the same.

    We were not the first to notice these similarities; at least two earlier scholars also noticed the same similarity. They were Ignatius Donnelly and Immanuel Velikovsky. Both attempted to explain what terrible worldwide event inspired these civilizations to tell about them in their mythologies for thousands of years. Both men felt that the cataclysm which occurred was caused by a comet or a planet coming very close to or hitting the earth. Both theories have major flaws in them. One flaw is that the magnetic field of the earth could not have reversed itself even if hit by a comet or planet to prove the point, take a bar magnet and pound it as long A you want-its north and south poles will not reverse themselves. The magnet will get weaker, but that’s all. Another error in their logic is that ice ages and polar reversals occurred many times on the planet and the time intervals between these events are equal.
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  • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 months, 1 week ago
    I am going to check out this chapter 11.
    Here, if you didn't copy it: vectorpub.com
    reality revealed chapter 11
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    • Posted by lrshultis 3 months ago
      Just a couple of non-objective things from part 11.
      Apparently he has no idea what he writes about.
      But who cares about definitions, they just get in the way of a fantastic unproved hypothesis let alone proving it to make a theory.

      Destruction means ruined beyond repair. You cannot have a destroyed Earth and still live on the Earth.
      The Sun is not a red giant star, it is a main sequence star, i.e.,a yellow dwarf star which is nothing like a red giant star.
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      • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 months ago
        He is talking about plant, animal and human life with a few survivors and it is the things civilizations have built and created that is pretty much destroyed and or buried.
        I would of thought that was pretty obvious.

        No the sun doesn't become a giant red star but because of all the micro debris it appears red until all is finally cleared up. It's the same thing science has witnessed looking at other stars that have undergone a micro nova.
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        • Posted by lrshultis 3 months ago
          If he meant just some destruction on the surface he should have said so but wrote destruction of the earth'. That is not as bad as those who now speak harming destroying the Earth by bad actions of humans or of those who categorize h humans into whites blacks, browns, reds, and yellows or that God is the source of morality or that one can find morality by finding something that appears to be altruistic be behavior among other animals or even plants or those who are pro live and those who are pro choice. There have been many local destructions by non sun means, mainly earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, fires, flooding of coastal settlements do to the 300 feet or more rise in the seas during the Holocene interglacial from the from the end of the last large glaciation, etc. Plenty of earthly means to produce legends among ignorant ancient peoples. Remember they are legends and myths which may or may not have any scientific value other than in the study of myths and legends. One looks for some corroborative evidence for the legend and does not just speculate as to its meaning. For example, the Bibles all report miraculous events which those of each religion pretend to know the causes to be from some supernatural being or spirit or consciousness. Many read the Bible and believe that it was not written by men but was the direct production from God. That happened to me in a Jury room where the two men next to me were discussing the bible. I mentioned that it was written by men. The top expert there tried to defend his view by mentioning what had happened during the the swearing in where I had to make a spectacle of myself by indicating that I wanted a secular oath rather than the religious one. He acted as though he had won some argument. Although the man most likely had far more knowledge than the myth and legend makers, he could not overcome his primitive belief in the Bible which contains some myth with a little fact mixed in with no way to tell which is which without checking with knowledge gained over the last thousands of years. I had an advantage in that my parents never taught we kids religious beliefs, just good morals by some stories and by example.
          As far as I can see, Vogt has very little scientific and factual knowledge about objective reality.
          It is interesting how those who believe religiously, reinterpret statements to fit their beliefs. 'Red giant' means that the star was very much larger than it is. It does not mean that the star had just a reddish appearance, which it would have had if viewed though lots of certain kinds of particles in the atmosphere. It would not look like a giant star such as a red giant star which would engulf the whole earth.
          There is no evidence for a star by itself producing a micro-nova. The only one which had a micro-nova which has been determined to be of any size turned out to be a binary system with matter flowing from one to the other where build up excessively on the surface where sudden nuclear fusion takes place. The red looking star is the same as seeing the sun at the horizon as large, optical illusion, and red when large amount of particulate matter is in the atmosphere.
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          • Posted by ewv 3 months ago
            Voght not only "has very little scientific and factual knowledge about objective reality", he is fundamentally hostile to it. Debunking his confusions over specific topics in physics and astronomy is almost irrelevant -- as shown by Carl's remaining oblivious to it.

            Voght begins and ends with a religious outlook with typical arbitrary, subjective thinking at the deepest level:

            "The Universe is the product of information [information about what?]. The information creates the matter world we live in, and it is transmitted from another time-space relationship, into our time and space to create our reality."

            "The Theory of Multidimensional Reality is the world's first purely information theory of existence."

            This is the profoundly subjectivist mentality of the bizarre that Carl is attracted to and which is throughout his repetitive, voluminous promotions here. It is not "science" and it is not rational. It does not belong on this forum at all.
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            • Posted by lrshultis 3 months ago
              The concept of information is being used by many who have no idea about information measurements.The idea that the Universe is made of information is the same as saying that it is made of some particular types of measurements. Just as bad would be to say that the Universe made of entropy or that chemical reactions are made of enthalpy. There is some evidence that information is conserved but that may or may not be true of matter entering a black hole.
              The main error is in believing that concepts exist in objective reality, rather than the results of mental activity dealing with objective reality, and thus are reifiable, which ends in creating metaphor which lets one pretend that objective reality is what one is dealing with rather than games with language. It is fully irrational to deal with objective reality that way.
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              • Posted by ewv 3 months ago
                His "information theory of existence" as accounting for physical reality isn't even measurement (measurement of what?). It's pure metaphysical Idealism. According to Vogt "Everything starts with an idea -- even the Universe". He thinks that reality is a "hologram" from an idea. He has no concept of objective reality at all.
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          • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 months ago
            Ah, but 64 different cultures spread around the world, having identical or similar legends?...that's when one Has to go, Hmmm

            As far as Vogt goes, his theory about what was discovered in 1958 and since is a Lot closer to reality than anything we have been taught.

            We really need government to tell us what they know cause much of the bull crap we have been fed doesn't match what some have found.

            I know you guys think everything the ancients pass on to us is just made up stuff. They had not the means nor the motive to make up stuff and some of it is really detailed. So one should be willing to admit there are Big Questions here to be asked.
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            • Posted by lrshultis 3 months ago
              "We have covered the mythologies of 64 different societies and tribes throughout the entire world. All of them say that at one time there was a great deluge. On this point there is no exception. Ten of these societies specifically said that the sun rose in the west and set in the east. Other societies amplified this point by saying that the sun stopped in the sky. These two points alone prove our theory that the earth changes rotation at the end of each cycle".

              Those two points do not prove their hypothesis that the Earth changes its rotation at the end of the hypothetical cycles. Anecdotal evidence is not evidence of proof, it can possibly give an indication for the formation of an hypothesis, though actual physical evidence is the way to go. First one must prove that there are cycles, numerology will not do. Next show how conservation of energy and conservation of angular momentum are not violated in the change of the rotation. Finally find actual physical evidence that such a rotation reversal ever occurred. Then one can then have something to point to a theory and after much testing, perhaps the theory can be proven true.
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              • Posted by ewv 3 months ago
                He's isn't paying any attention, which is one reason why he does not belong here. Believing that ancient mythology re-interpreted to mean whatever he wants means "proof" makes no more sense than "He found the exact date encoded in the Torah." That's another reason he doesn't belong here. He's a mystic who finds rational thought and objectivity too psychologically difficult, the way crackpots gravitate to the sensationalism of the the National Enquirer and swear it's all true. Rational discussion with such a mentality is impossible.
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              • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 months ago
                I guess you'll have to wait till the day it happens to find out...by then, it will be too late.

                Do you really think science isn't trying to figure this out?
                There is proof of these cycles, just as we find specific glass beads with no air bubbles in them...aprox 12K years apart in the sedimentary layers...again, do you not think other scientists are figuring this out and politically and socially afraid to say anything?

                Scientists are finally talking about our weakening magnetic shield and magnetic pole excursions. it's only a matter of time before the discussion hits the lamestream...in an innocuous politically correct way, of course.
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                • Posted by ewv 3 months ago
                  OldUgly: "I guess you'll have to wait till the day it happens to find out...by then, it will be too late."

                  Fire and brimstone threats are typical religious argument from intimidation. It is not rational. Neither is tossing in vague excursions into "glass beads". Bizarre mythology does not "hit the mainstream" of science, which is not "lamestream".

                  Theory of variations in the earth's magnetic field is not new, is not due to Vogt, and does not mean the earth stops rotating.

                  Take the psycho nonsense somewhere else. This is a forum for Ayn Rand's ideas of reason, not a magnet for the bizarre to flood the forum with spam.
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            • Posted by ewv 3 months ago
              Collective subjectivism is not objectivity. Selecting aspects of multiple mythologies and interpreting them to rationalize a case for someone's bizarre speculations contrary to known facts and possibility is not science.

              There were no "ancients" who were a "people that was literally tens of millions of years more advanced than us" as Vogt claims. It is all nonsense. It is not a "Lot closer to reality than anything we have been taught." Please take your subjectivist anti-science somewhere else. It is not science. You have no background in science and don't know what you are talking about. Promoting this BS does not belong on a forum for Ayn Rand.
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              • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 months ago
                Known Facts?...the magnetic poles Do Reverse, we know that and the Sun Does micro nova, we have the descriptions and the physical evidence to match. NASA has viewed a multitude of other stars doing it too.
                So what scares you so much to deny what we are theorizing?..that it probably does repeat in a 12,000 year cycle?
                In spite of all the bull crap going on in governments and societies today, do you not think this might be a more pressing issue to investigate?

                So what is subjective about that?

                It would seem the ancients knew a lot more than we do today or are willing to let go of our egos enough to take note of it.
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                • Posted by ewv 3 months ago
                  The earth does not reverse its rotation and Vogt's techo-babble is not science and reality. He is a charlatan, not a guru to be breathlessly followed. The "ancients" were primitives not "people that was literally tens of millions of years more advanced than us". Please take your nonsense somewhere else. It is contrary to the purpose of this forum and does not belong here, let alone in multiple voluminous spamming flooding this forum.
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                  • -1
                    Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 months ago
                    Oh, forgive me, I forgot that you were witness to the last time the magnetic poles reversed.
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                    • Posted by lrshultis 3 months ago
                      He did not indicate that he was a witness to pole reversals.
                      Do you know what a magnetic pole reversal is?
                      There would be evidence in magnetism in volcanic rock layers which keep the polarities of the magnetic poles indicating the reversal. That does not show up for periods of about 12000 years. It is known that the future reversal is tens of thousands of year late.
                      What is the evidence for the Sun micro novaing? Very large CMEs would not be a nova of any type.
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                      • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 months ago
                        Actually it does, Irshultis,.. but it only shows up in areas of volcanic activity and up until recently we hadn't looked everywhere. (still haven't but there are some recent finds)
                        Of course there is the dating problem as well, some of the data being skewed.

                        When I find the several geological reports I've read, some supplied by Suspicious Observers...I will gladly pass them on to you if you wish.
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                        • Posted by lrshultis 3 months ago
                          Please reference those papers and not just refer to Suspicious observers with their pay wall.
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                          • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 months ago
                            Here is an example of a star going micronova every 100-500 years, on this mornings news. starts at 3:55 mins. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pycad...

                            http://www.esa.int/spaceinimages/Imag...
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                            • Posted by lrshultis 3 months ago
                              In no way is the Egg Nebula an example of the so called micro-nova. It is a dying star nearing the end of its life which has burnt (fused) most of its hydrogen and has become hotter with helium burning which gives more energy which periodically overcomes gravitation thus producing outbursts of matter thus causing what is called a planetary nebula. They then speculate as to the causes of the jets or rays seen in the periodic rings. If the Sun has periodic micro-nova outbursts during the 12000 year periods, where is all that discarded material? Perhaps the hypothesis is that it is just very hot outbursts from the Sun which tends to fry things on one side of the Earth while its rotation has stopped during the micro-nova. There is only one micro-nova whose spectrum has indicated whether it is a binary system or not. It is a binary system and has normal periodic nova as from some binary systems.
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  • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 months, 1 week ago
    Thanks Dan, will be checking it out later.
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    • Posted by  $  3 months, 1 week ago
      I just added part B.
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      • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 months, 1 week ago
        Can't figure out why this subject carries no weight here in the public side of the gulch. Have we reached saturation already?
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        • Posted by  $  WilliamShipley 3 months, 1 week ago
          I have confess that it's almost impossible to get me to go watch an hour video. Especially with a one line referral.

          Maybe with a paragraph or two that summarized it, I would want to go look at details but even then listening to someone talk is much slower than reading.
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          • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 months, 1 week ago
            We would do a better job in summarizing the information if we ourselves were better acquainted with the new material....and that is the problem, like you, this is New Information for us too...Conscious Humans can rarely integrate instantaneously unless it is a well studied subject.
            But Dan and I are getting more familiar with this subject every day and eventually we will be able to summarize this complex material in a simple straight forward way.

            Also, like many others, we are fighting a bit of cognitive dissonance too.
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 3 months ago
            "even then listening to someone talk is much slower than reading."
            You can try clicking on the setting sprocket on the video and then going to Speed - 2x. The audio sounds weird, but I seem to be able to follow most talks at that speed, allowing me to absorb audio as fast as reading. I use different speeds depending on the content and if I'm trying to do something else while listening.
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        • Posted by ewv 3 months, 1 week ago
          This "subject carries no weight" because it is all nonsense that is an embarrassment on this forum. You reached "saturation" the first time you promoted it.
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        • Posted by  $  3 months, 1 week ago
          It requires some time and effort to understand.
          Some very important topics that were ignored initially and now have some legs.
          Norman Dodd - NXIVM - Q -Candace Owens all are now getting attention.
          My post on Maurice Strong and his founding role in the green movement....
          The story of Technocracy and how that totalitarian subjective sustainability scam is now in play and its ultimate goal to depopulate the 🌍 . Very little interest in the manipulative plan and where it began. I keep pushing because it is crucial to know your enemy.
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          • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 months, 1 week ago
            I agree but will stop publishing in Public the micro nova stuff. At least privately, we have productive discussions even though it's a bit above our heads...(which is something that excites me, if you haven't noticed) If it weren't challenging, it wouldn't interests me...go figure.
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      • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 months, 1 week ago
        Been working outside before it gets cold again (probably) so I'll be watchin over the week end.
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        • Posted by  $  3 months, 1 week ago
          Drink lots of fluids.
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          • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 months, 1 week ago
            But then I'd have to stop working tooooooo often to take a pee!!! Besides, it's only been 55/60 the last few days.
            Just trying to get the place back in shape...for me that means "Brand New" shape like it was build and landscaped yesterday....I know, it's crazy but I have got to sell the place and get out of Dodge...err Connecticut if at all possible...I'd have to drag the old women though...not sure I could get away with that.
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