I don't like politics either but I do contribute to those discussions at times. My take away from Ayn Rands "Atlas Shrugged" is that each of us is an individual. Some of us embrace that ideal while others are sheep. I never consider myself a sheep much to the chagrin of my wife when I become the squeaky wheel to be heard. I have low tolerance with unknowledgeable people. To back up what your saying with facts is paramount for me. That is very important!

One thing that was very encouraging in 2016 were the huge numbers of what I call the secret trump voters- the y didn’t show up in the political polls but they showed up. at the polling places and cast their votes anonymously and in secret. I don’t say much and no one interviews me, but me and my friends will pull the lever for trump in 2020

I await serious replies to the analysis I linked. Here is OK, but if you prefer you can find my own forums at http://fallibleideas.com/discussion

Hello exceller and term2!

I enjoyed your conversation.

As an old fogy, I can only say few things that I think have meaning in this contest. I can tell you, with very deep conviction, an old saying that is, I think, obviously true: "People get the government they deserve." A corollary is: "If you don't rebel, you accept." I have two encouraging and two discouraging observations.

Encouraging. I see in the generation of my two sons, late 40s to early 50s a lot of smart, highly productive and incorruptible managers and leaders. The voters that mostly helped install Trump presidency were productive working class men and women.

Discouraging. The education system is rapidly deteriorating and produces more and more "sophomores" (i.e. literate ignoramuses) who are easily misled and abused by college faculties and ideological malfeasants. The current bunch of carrier politicians is deeply corrupt and will resist tooth and nail being pushed out of cushy get rich schemes that require little hard work and even less honesty.

The people will have to eventually impose their will. What Trump started is the slowly changing of navigation course of the huge bureaucratic monster of an aircraft carrier of nearly unimaginable size. It began to turn (unemployment, GDP, foreign policy, justice department, supreme court), but it will take years to turn it nearly 180 deg. needed.

I am looking for a rebellion without blood shedding.

Good luck to you all. I will not be around to see your success.

I would like to second this.

I agree that there are many different people here. I think that the site has moved, over the years, far from people tying to understand Objectivism to mostly current daily political commentary, nearly worthless.

If there is a place where I could explore, with guidance more knowledgeable than my near ignorance, Atlas Shrugged in deep detail, I would jump in wholeheartedly. Put a notice in here even if you decide to do it somewhere else. Those interested will follow.

my point is that using the term benevolent dictator is of the same construction. A so called benevolent dictator is just a "dictator", period. Which is why all dictators turn out the same.

I looked at it, saw the length, looked at my time constraints, and decided...

... there is far too much there to cover in a single discussion thread. I applaud you for the obvious amount of effort which went into that post, I'd just recommend that you chop it up into bite-size pieces built around individual concepts for discussion here.

Did you look at the link? If you could show me anything similar to it which was ever written here in the past, I would appreciate it.

There is no such thing as democratic socialism.

It is an oxymoron invented by the left to make it palatable for the sheeple.

The more dictatorial socialism/communism becomes, the more you hear the left shrieking "democracy". They don't even know what the term implies.

Socialism is the rule of the masses leading to communism. By definition, it is a dictatorship ("dictatorship of the proletariat" by Marx and Lenin).

There is no democracy there. The State puts into place measures to ensure its domination.

Maybe there just isn’t such a person. Benevolent dictator is like calling socialism democratic socialism. It’s still a dictstot

I am not sure we can prevent a collapse no matter what we do. As to escaping to a gulch, defense would be paramount and perhaps not achievable until a collapse of collectivism

It just wasn’t the right benevolent dictator this time.
/s

Yes, you have a point.

Should we let society expire like it did in AS? Then escape to a Gulch with like minded compatriots?

I wish it could be done. I'd be the first one to fly there.

Amazing that there arent major stories every day about how bad socialism is in Venezuela and WHY its so bad. People here dont want to live under a failed system, and they need to see how socialism fails every time.

Perhaps I am just tired of all the negativity in politics. I just want to be esssentially left alone to pursue my life without having what I do regulated and taxed.
I call Biden - OG Biden. He is like a ghost from the past that never did anything, never thought anything unique, but the dems are looking ONLY at who can defeat Trump, regardless of what it does to the country.
Look at what they accomplished in two years of Trump hating- He has been investigated and kept from doing what he was hired to do for the most part. We lost our only chance at getting rid of Obamacare, we arent getting anywhere with immigration at the border. Its not looking very good except for two supreme court judges he got in after MUCH pain and suffering.

I think the dems backtracked on impeachment since they know they CANT win given that the Senate has to vote also for it. The senate couldnt even impeach Clinton for obvious very bad behavior.

That is defeatist thinking.

The hatred for Trump is backfiring. Didn't you follow the backpedaling of the Dems on impeachment? In the midst of their hysteria and "resistance" they must have realized it was not a viable path for them.

Now they put up crazy Biden to defeat Trump. They are hoping he'll deliver a performance like he gave in the debate in 2012 coming across as the tavern drunk, interrupting and laughing like a maniac. That is what the mob wants.

Question is: is that what sane people want?

That may be a little bit like having thought, “Let’s just let the world find out how bad fascism really is.”

I think in 2020 we may take a giant step toward socialism, given the mob rule inherent in “democracy “. Trump hijacked a failed and reluctant Republican Party and slipped through the cracks to defeat the lazy and arrogant democrats. They won’t make those mistakes again.

I think I am going to sell off my business in the next year or so and hide in plain sight to enjoy life as the country slowly collapses.

The hatred for trump and what he stands for, along with the ever increasing restrictions on free speech has gotten past the point of no return. I think The plot of AS was essentially predictive of the only viable was to defeat collectivism. It has to fall of its own weight before enough people will agree to see its faults. In the meantime. We get to live through manh years of painful decline

That is up to you and up to the individual.

That’s true, but can we really do much about it other than going galt

I can't tell if "Bare with with me until I get your time constraints." is a typo of some sort (beyond "bear" being typoed) or if it's a request to know something about my time constraints. I have no time constraints which are relevant to you. I have put effort into arranging my life so that I have time to participate in philosophy discussions.

Hey, I read Atlas Shrugged in 1973. I wouldn't mind discussing objectivism with you. Bare with with me until I get your time constraints.

Yes, politics today is a waste of time and energy.

Ignore it and it will intrude on your life day in and day out.

That is why the left is using it, being fully aware of the chaos and war-like conditions it creates.

It is a luxury to turn your back to it: move to a forest, cut the phone and cable lines. While out there people die and forced to live in dictatorships.

It is difficult to fight corrupt interests. When 911 happened, I knew that from there on our life would change drastically b/c we must factor in Islam and its tenet that is indoctrinated into every Muslim: to destroy our society.

You can't close your eyes as if nothing is happening. It would be suicidal.

A great deal of what is posted here is in response to what is happening in the political democratic socialist world of America with the assumption that with the right tinkering it can be unraveled. It often seems the belief is that if even one small chain of slavery can be undone the slaves will realize what they have done to themselves and suddenly begin to unravel all of the socialism. Instead what happens is that the slaves demand more to protect themselves from being free.
The most difficult thing to accept is that when you teach objectivism most people will spend their time justifying their slavery, you reach very few. Trying to work within the framework of socialism simply consumes and buries the individual. At this point in human evolution still the only way to be free of the mystics is to live in Galt's Gulch, and I don't where that could be.
Surveillance societies are developing across the globe and much of it is being supplied by China. Third world countries that had some hope of an individual at least being unobserved are quickly buying and implementing systems for the auspicious use to protect the public while giving the particular government the ability to monitor and control the behavior of their subjects.
If your objective is to discuss philosophy to refine and define your goals and your life there is some of that here.

I think what is driving political attention is that politics today is our enemy for the most part. Ignore leftists and you will be blindsided by attacks on your freedom and life in general.

I would rather just ignore leftist politics, and treat it for what it is- nonsense. I pay a little attention to it so I can anticipate what disasters the left is going to throw at me.

Other than that, politics today is a waste of time and energy, and time spent on the proper application of philosophy to our lives would be a far better use of the time we have here on earth.