It's the decision we all face, do we do nothing and complain or do we get the courage up and do something about it.

Godel's first and second Incompleteness theorem on Axiomatic systems. Not enough room to discuss here. Does not change "existence exists" but relevant.

Explain the hidden truths in "existence exists" beyond simply stating there are some.

Then suggest something better. There are hidden truths in axiomatic systems.

Personally, it has nothing to do with my opinion. I reject the premises of your thought experiments.

Ok everyone, I give up. Everyone has established opinions and a inability to answer a yes or no questions. I will not waste my time with thought experiments.

"If you went to sleep one day and existence changed around you without your consciousness changing would you notice?"

It's impossible for the rules of metaphysics to change.

"If you went to sleep and your consciousness changed without any change of existence would you notice?"

The term "change in consciousness" would need to be defined and studied extensively. This is the job of the field of psychology.

"If you went to sleep and both your consciousness and existence changed would you noticed?"

Still a combination of the answers to 1 and 2, as it is a combination of the scenarios.

Okay, then...

1. WE exist, so if existence as a whole changes, we would change too. Our consciousness, our awareness of reality, would have to change if WE change.

2. Answered above.

3. The question is moot; if they both change, who is going to notice what? Both the "observer" and the "content" are different; you can't notice a change in reality and a change in your consciousness. In order for you to notice that your existence or consciousness has changed, "you" still have to be there, and you still would have to know what existence was and what it changed into.

The problem is the same: if existence "changed" overnight, then WE changed as well, because we exist. Our awareness would change, so in order to notice a change, there would have to have been an "objectively true" reality that we can compare to the new one.

One more thing.

Rand gave an explanation in her book "Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology" (which every commenter on this thread should read, regardless of what side of the debate you fall on) as follows:

"Something exists, of which I am conscious, I must identify it."

This is a clear expression of the Objectivist idea of the primacy of existence: something has to exist first before we are aware of that something (in fact, that something exists whether we are aware of it or not), at which point we can identify it. These questions about "what if this changed" or "what if that changed" would be much more clearly shown to be the stolen concepts they are if people would keep their axioms in check.

Answer the questions yes or no. This is not hard. Use your best judgement. If you think the experiment is flawed come up with a better tests.

1. The first hypothetical is irrelevant. The rules of metaphysics can't change.

2. Reality is still the same. If you use different telescopes, you're still observing the same solar system.

3. Your third hypothetical is a combination of the answers to 1 and 2.

So? In both situations how would your consciousness perceive the change? Look these are simple questions. Do not try to restate them answer them as is and then if you need to ask better questions. It is called a thought experiment.

There is a question that has been argued forever on this thread on the primacy of consciousness over existence.

This a thought experiment to shed some light on the issue. They are straightforward. Do not fudge the answers. If the premise is false answer the question on that basis.

I asked three questions, you answered one. The experiment needs three answers I think to draw a conclusion.

Oh and watch out for axioms they hide some truths.

But within that question is a stolen concept. How would "you" notice a change if in fact it is not "you"? This is a false premise. Who is doing the "noticing" of the change? Even in the example, you are attempting to disprove an axiom by using the axiom you're challenging. That is a stolen concept.

Now, is this the point? Are you making the point that consciousness is our means of awareness of existence, but not a means of changing existence? Am I misunderstanding something here?

There are three tests two of the tests only have one change. The third changes both.

1. If reality were different, it would be different. Reality isn't different.

2. Reality is still reality.

Ok first I pick the rules of metaphysics change.

Then next I pick your are in a alien body on another planet and everyone tells you that you name is zorg and they have know you for years.

So identity changes? Reality doesn't change based on people, people's experiences of reality change. If you use different telescopes, you're still observing the same solar system.

Can you please pick either of my two options?

Agreed. By changed consciousness I mean, you are not you. Do not read more into this. You could run the experiment with a blank consciousness one that has no experience.

The act of "noticing" is an act of consciousness. There's no such thing as awareness without content to be aware of, that's why existence and consciousness are axioms in Objectivist thought.

Please clarify what you mean by a "changed consciousness." Consciousness is simply being conscious, so how could it change aside from being unconscious?

A fundamental change in existence that does not affect your consciousness. Try the experiment with both choices. See if you get different answers.

When you say existence is changing, do you mean the rules of metaphysics change or someone paints your house a different color?

It's not a chicken or egg discussion.

Since we have run out space on right side of this board I put this thought experiment here.

If you went to sleep one day and existence changed around you without your consciousness changing would you notice?

If you went to sleep and your consciousness changed without any change of existence would you notice?

If you went to sleep and both your consciousness and existence changed would you noticed?

This the longest "Chicken or the Egg" discussion I have ever seen.