Is the end inevitable?

Posted by msmithp2 2 weeks ago to Politics
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Revolution is hard, and that’s not an excuse not to participate in your community. But we have to be realistic about the possible near- and medium-term outcomes for this system, and there aren’t any good ones. We have to deal with capitalism soon, or it will deal with us.

Sean Illing
The very last thing you say in the book is that millennials will have to become either fascists or revolutionaries. Is the choice really that binary? Are you convinced revolution is the only answer, knowing all that that implies?

Malcolm Harris
Yes, is the very simple answer. It’s not for me to say what must be done, but people can look at the world and decide for themselves. What I can tell you now is that we appear to be running out of options for reform.

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If the looters are convinced that there is no option but to scrap the system, have we reached the tipping point where we cannot steer back to a rational society? Seems like there is no need to strike, but just prepare for the rebuilding.
SOURCE URL: https://www.vox.com/2019/2/4/18185383/millennials-capitalism-burned-out-malcolm-harris


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  • Posted by  $  Solver 2 weeks ago
    Capitalism is an economic system based on property rights and voluntary exchange. Capitalism is not a political system. Most of what people think is the problem of capitalism is actually the problem of statism interjected into a capitalist system.
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    • Posted by 2 weeks ago
      Totally agree with you on capitalism and the problems that occur when you inject statist policies into the capitalist system. While the conflict between capitalism and socialist policies is economic, the idea of dealing with capitalism through revolution is political, which is the theme of the article and why I categorized it as political.
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      • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 2 weeks ago
        If Capitalist were smart, then they would stop doing business with statism, cronyism and out compete socialism and the perversions of the human mind and the property thereof that socialism brings.

        More evidence that we are ruled by mobs of anitlectual idiots. [that is the danger of demonocracies].
        We don't refer to it as the Kakistocracy for no reason.
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    • Posted by  $  blarman 2 weeks ago
      The study of politics deals with morals, therefore the decision of the type of economy to embrace is in fact both a political and moral statement. Capitalism just also happens to be the only moral and political system based on inherent, individual rights and equality of the individual. All others at some point devolve into a class-based system separated into the self-appointed elites and the elite-appointed serfs. Feudalism, socialism, fascism, communism, and military dictatorships are all based on the same principles of inequality of the individual based on some arbitrary rationale. Even many religious theocracies deny the inherent rights of the individual.

      "Most of what people think is the problem of capitalism is actually the problem of statism interjected into a capitalist system."

      Bingo. Once government gets in bed with business, equality of treatment and opportunity go out the window. And capitalism corrupted in such a way is no more capitalism, but cronyism.
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      • Posted by ewv 1 day, 22 hours ago
        The study of politics does not directly "deal with morals", every politics presupposes an ethics.

        Capitalism is not based on "equality of the individual"; it requires equality under the law.

        "Even many religious theocracies" deny the rights of the individual? They typically do that.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 2 weeks ago
    "ours is the crisis of extreme capitalism"
    There hasn't been any free market capitalism since the 19th century, much less extreme capitalism.
    This is no more than whining ignorant socialist propagandists. They have received the economic benefits of improved productivity but can do nothing but complain that they aren't being paid more. News flash, there are people overseas who work just as hard and produce as much for lower pay. This competition has been happening for centuries and the inventions that result from that competition are a primary reason for the standard of living that we in the West enjoy.
    Get over it and learn to compete, or expect to have a reduced standard of living. Complaining and handing control to government will do nothing but make the stagnation worse, since government meddling and interference in the free market is a primary reason for the higher cost of doing business in the US.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 1 week, 6 days ago
    Mr. Harris says he "[takes] a very Marxist perspective on the world," and he appears to shoehorn the topic of Marxism onto the topic of millennial. He says they're responding to "bearing the brunt of the economic damage wrought by late-20th-century capitalism." The conditions he describes as being bad that I do not agree are bad. Setting that aside, we can look at each one and find the same condition present to the same extent or more so in history. Why don't we see the same traits he ascribes to millennials in those times?

    I don't think he's right about millennials being unusually troubled. People always say, "kids these days..." He says they're troubled because of increased social problems. I think social problems have actually decreased. He blames the increased social problems on capitalism. I think capitalism is what's making social problems decrease. So Harris and I are 180 degrees out of phase.
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 1 week, 6 days ago
    As I see it the Millenials have been brainwashed by educators at the high school and college level. What is lacking in the US educational system is vocational education. If there was a robust Voc Ed system I believe we wouldn't have the Millenial Problem.
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  • Posted by term2 1 week, 6 days ago
    We have a very strange combination of capitalism, fascism, and socialism in the USA Today .

    Banking is run fascist style, with private banking money being completely controlled by fascism

    The VA is socialist medical care

    Medicare is run fascist style

    The internet started out as a capitalist thing, but is turning fascist

    The more I think about it, we are primarily run by a fascist government with just enough capitalism allowed to keep the economy going
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    • Posted by ewv 1 day, 22 hours ago
      Fascism is a form of socialism.

      The internet isn't turning fascist, it is threatened by progressively growing fascism to controlling, starting with the mass surveillance.
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      • Posted by term2 1 day, 21 hours ago
        I agree, and it’s content is quickly being monitored and government controlled through edits to the providers
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        • Posted by ewv 1 day, 21 hours ago
          What are "edits to the providers"? "Edicts"?

          The mass surveillance is not just from the government; it has become an immoral "business model" exploiting a lack of laws protecting individual property and privacy against stalkers and thieves. Government also exploits the "business" surveillance in addition to its own, as proved by the Snowden document dump.
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          • Posted by term2 1 day, 10 hours ago
            Don’t you think that the surveillance by business is really sanctioned by ourselves? We use google, the internet, we text on public cell phone networks, etc. we could encrypt emails, texts, and use VPNs for internet, if we didn’t want to give up data. By using credit cards and banks we are trading lack of financial privacy for convenience. Even if a company swore on a stack of bibles to never give our our data, the government simply demands and gets it if we are “suspected” of some “crime”
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            • Posted by ewv 1 day, 10 hours ago
              It's not sanctioned by ourselves. Many of us do take measures to block the surveillance, but much of it is inherently out of our control and businesses and government go out of their way to hide what they are doing from the public.

              There is a lot more about this government and culture that we don't sanction but have no control over. Not living as a hermit or committing suicide is not an acceptance sanctioning it.

              It is true that many today don't care, or subjectively rationalize to themselves that the surveillance doesn't matter, but there seems to be an increasing rebellion as it becomes better known.
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              • Posted by term2 1 day, 7 hours ago
                Now that you know that anything you put on the internet is in fact mostly accessible by business and completely accessible by government- IF you continue to use these electronic means, you are saying that you accept that what you say on the internet is accessible as noted above. If you didnt know about their access, I could agree that you would be the subject of theft. But since you know whats happening to your posts, wouldnt you agree that its now your responsibility to protect them if you want them secret?
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                • Posted by ewv 1 day, 6 hours ago
                  Everything I do is not practically accessible by everyone. This isn't the Borg. Using electronics as the only means possible in this culture is not an endorsement of either the policies or the risks of hacking, misuse of information, and vendettas. This isn't about "posts", which are publicly displayed. I don't put everything on the internet for the world to see and I do not sanction any violation of rights.
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                  • Posted by term2 1 day, 5 hours ago
                    Whatever you DO put up on public forums is accessible to our government. You might as well send letters to the New York Times, or go out in public and verbally deliver the messages. Its unfortunate.
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                    • Posted by ewv 1 day, 5 hours ago
                      The hacking and surveillance violating privacy and property rights are not of public forums.

                      This isn't about public forums. Everyone knows that public forums are public, and usually use them because of that. It's much more effective than letters to the NYT -- which wouldn't print them.
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                      • Posted by term2 1 day ago
                        I think if google, apple, amazon and others just admitted they use our data, it would be more honest. They skate around the issue and lead us to blieve our data is not released, and then go ahead and release it. For THAT I would hold them responsible for lying.
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  • Posted by  $  25n56il4 1 week, 2 days ago
    I wonder if we could just throw out all the ideas? Why does AOK, Kamela, Bernie and Company think they have a 'Better Idea'. Why don't they try to solve some of the problems on their desks?
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  • Posted by  $  25n56il4 1 week, 6 days ago
    Who cares? Having lived through WWII, The Korean Conflict, Viet Nam (twice...lost brother in law and husband died from exposure to Agent Orange), the Cuban Crisis (I was informed by a dear friend (Jet Pilot) not to worry, we were at Ground Zero and had a 90 minute (maybe) life expectancy.) Don't try to scare me. It isn't gonna happen!
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