Not free speech, not free market and rules enforcement are subjective.

Posted by  $  Solver 5 months, 3 weeks ago to Business
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Here is the full transcript mentioned in the video. It will probably become another historical case study of leftist doublespeak.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1U...

The video,
https://youtu.be/Hv7hvZee-PQ
SOURCE URL: https://youtu.be/Hv7hvZee-PQ


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  • Posted by  $  Dobrien 5 months, 3 weeks ago
    Thanks Solver.
    Mob rule or what is also called democracy is what the founders of our country intended to keep at bay,when they formed this republic. In fact the founders saw democracy as a dirty word. The founders intent was to protect the individual not to allow the majority to steamroll over the unaffiliated.
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  • Posted by  $  exceller 5 months, 3 weeks ago
    "JACQUELINE: So for Patreon, we can have free speech up to a point. And that’s why we have guidelines where the line is drawn. "

    What is "free speech up to a point"?

    It is either free or not. She decides what that point is, right? The point where the left disagrees.
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    • Posted by DrZarkov99 5 months, 3 weeks ago
      Slander and libel are the traditional limits on speech, with associated civil penalties. Beyond those, speech that incites to riot can be penalized. However, the left has expanded the concept of speech that creates a physical danger to others to any speech that might offend as that to be forbidden. Of course, they consider their own speech rights to be sacred, no matter what they say.
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  • Posted by  $  5 months, 3 weeks ago
    This is an important case where leftist ideology to control what you are allowed to say and where you are allowed to say it is being directly challenged by many people. We are seeing the free market taking down these types of bad business practices.

    Patreon is following the motto "get woke go BROKE" #PatreonPurge
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  • Posted by ycandrea 5 months, 3 weeks ago
    Um, isn't Patreon a private company providing a service? And can't they refuse service to customers? So what if they don't want certain speech in there network? It is a free country, right? Private industry is not bound to provide free speech. They have a right to their own opinions. Just saying.
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    • Posted by freedomforall 5 months, 3 weeks ago
      Patreon are ignoring their own rules and terms of service - banning people who depend on the platform for their livelihood who have not violated the terms of service.
      Patreon has also banned someone, not for what he said on Patreon's site, but what he said elsewhere, and taking statements elsewhere out of context as described by enemies of the person without any rational, unbiased consideration by Patreon.
      Patreon has repeatedly avoided responding to the issues while trying to tell other customers that they would not likely treat them the same way.

      First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
      Because I was not a socialist.

      Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
      Because I was not a trade unionist.

      Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
      Because I was not a Jew.

      Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

      I agree with your free market thinking and hope that Patreon has destroyed their credibility permanently, and that they receive just desserts for irrational treatment of their customers.
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      • Posted by ycandrea 5 months, 3 weeks ago
        Sorry. I don't buy it. The free speech rule is only for gov't controlled businesses and agencies because they work for all of us. Businesses work for themselves and they should be able to pick and choose who their customers are. Unless you want all businesses controlled by gov't.
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        • Posted by  $  5 months, 3 weeks ago
          One question, should an employer be able to fire any employee for any reason, such as using the wrong pronoun?
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          • Posted by ycandrea 5 months, 3 weeks ago
            I think an employer should be able to fire anyone he wishes. His business will not be successful if he is a lunatic. Employees can quit for any reason also. It is called freedom.
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            • Posted by  $  5 months, 3 weeks ago
              So a long time employee with an mutually agreed upon contract can be fired at time time for any reason?
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              • Posted by ycandrea 5 months, 3 weeks ago
                In most cases I believe in Employment at will. At will by either side. If there was a contract, it would, of couse, take precedent. Were the terms of the contract breached by the employer in this case?
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                • Posted by  $  5 months, 3 weeks ago
                  In this scenario, let’s say the contract stated, “the company does not tolerate hate speech and any employee using hate speech can be fired” —could they legally use that clause to fire an employee that used the wrong pronoun?
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                  • Posted by ycandrea 5 months, 3 weeks ago
                    Are you talking about an employee handbood that the employee signs? I was HR manager and we had a handbook with guide lines that all new employees signed. But we were still an At Will company, which means employee and employer can terminate employment for any reason at any time. Why would an employee want to work for such an employer that would fire him for using the wrong pronoun. Of course this is wrong and I would want nothing to do with such an employer. No one is a victim here as we all have choices. Again, just my opinion.
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    • Posted by  $  5 months, 3 weeks ago
      Right, but freedom is speech is critical for a civilized society to continue to exist. You don’t need to be a government to be against freedom of speech. What this is mostly about is the mobs and the companies that quickly bend their knees to the mobs, while breaking their own contracts and rules, and seemly in a coluded manner with other companies. Many are protesting these very bad and disturbing business practices.

      The topic is based on three primary points argued in the video. Did you disagree with any of the arguments in the video?
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      • Posted by ycandrea 5 months, 3 weeks ago
        I still believe our country is free enough that the consumer decides which businesses fail or succeed. Or did you want the gov't to decided that? Consumers have a right to not use the service if they don't like the company's political views. But that does not mean that companies should not have political views. Just my opinion. I read the entire transcript and if I were the rep from Patreon I would just come out and say "We have a right to decide whatever we want for our company. No matter the political persuasion." Patreon does not have to provide free speech! By your way of thinking, it was right that the baker was punished for not baking a cake for the gay couple. He was punished by the gov't. Is this what you want for all businesses?
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  • Posted by jdg 5 months, 3 weeks ago
    Here is the whole thing as uploaded by Sargon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzQt0...

    Whatever the law does or doesn't say about it, this "deplatforming" movement is vicious and needs to be destroyed. I believe we have reached the time when getting the perpetrators fired by their employers and kicked out by their landlords (as they are already doing to their victims) is both called-for and necessary in self-defense.
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  • Posted by  $  5 months, 3 weeks ago
    Freedom of Speech, one of the most important topics for 2019

    Patreon Purge: Bankers are the Global Speech Police
    https://thelibertarianrepublic.com/pa...

    “The problem with what’s going on currently with online deplatforming is certain ‘wrongthinkers’ aren’t just being kicked off websites like Patreon, but competitors are also being stifled. I support a right to refuse service – I do not support meddling in someone else’s business when they are refused service and move elsewhere.”
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  • Posted by  $  5 months, 2 weeks ago
    I’ve created a new much more serious topic.
    https://www.galtsgulchonline.com/post...

    “I fear we‘re seeing some plan to reestablish the former power of the Gated Institutional Narrative well above Patreon’s paygrade using payment networks. I hope this is wrong. But if it‘s correct, “improper” bitcoin transactions will start to carry serious criminal penalties.”
    - Eric Weinstein 12/25/2018
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  • Posted by  $  5 months, 3 weeks ago
    Patreon sounds more like a prison or re-education camp than a business.
    (BTW, historically much of this is a lie)

    “Patreon takes a highly personal approach to policing speech. While Google and Facebook use algorithms as a first line of defense for questionable content, Patreon has human moderators. They give warnings and reach out to talk to offenders, presenting options for “education” and “reform.” Some activists hope this will become a model for a better and kinder internet.”

    “If someone has breached Patreon’s policy, the company contacts the offender with a specific plan, which usually involves asking for the content to be removed and for a public apology.

    The conversations with creators can quickly become complicated, nuanced, and, well, human, she said. Among other challenges, Patreon has to decide what qualifies as a sincere and thorough apology. Still, having human moderators has changed its users’ behaviors more than simply deleting accounts would, Ms. Hart said.

    We hand-hold creators, and we work with them one on one, and nearly every creator reforms — and so it’s quite a successful process,” she said.”
    -New York Times - Dec 24, 2018
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