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Jordan Peterson - IQ accurate as predictor of success, but not of ethical behavior

Posted by freedomforall 6 years, 9 months ago to Science
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Interesting video discussion of the accuracy IQ predicts success. Comments at the end are especially interesting regarding high IQ and ethical behavior. No correlation whatsoever between IQ and ethical behavior.


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  • Posted by CaptainKirk 6 years, 9 months ago
    I wonder why someone would think they should be related.
    My understanding is that IQ is an ability to "match patterns" and/or solve problems.

    Ethical Behavior is VERY dependent on Culture. In some countries, it is ETHICAL to take advantage of someone. It is encouraged.
    Is it Ethical to sell a 10 cent pill for $12,000? It depends... If it's YOUR pill, YOU get to choose what to sell it for! (Think about the Epi Pen Idiot,
    and our corrupt government who got him on OTHER crimes! Which I find MORE unethical than what he did).

    The challenge for us in this forum is that we (as a group) tend to believe in following rules, and are by USA standards pretty Ethical.

    (And cognitive Bias allows for us to IGNORE when we aren't, or when we have cheated. I am proud to say that if I get too much change back, I make sure to give it back. I did NOT ALWAYS behave this way. It was unethical of me!)

    Being able to solve problems and THINK AHEAD is a great skill. REALIZING that the world operates BETTER with Ethics, is a DIFFERENT Skill, and AKIN to Wisdom. KNOWING that not everyone is Ethical is key! (Trusting people tend to over trust. Unethical people pick up on this. They target those people as easy prey).

    Keep in mind that our GOVERNMENT Prevents IQ testing from companies choosing employees. FORCING An Education System on us to do it for them. Unfortunately, like all Government programs, it degrades and is NO LONGER a predictor of IQ (ie, usefulness of an employee).

    It's all related to what we value... Think about it this way. IQ gives you the ability to DELAY Gratification.
    Ethics gives you the ability to RECOGNIZING if you are taking advantage of someone/something.

    And Ethics can be thrown out the window in defiance... For example, if taxes are raised to 70%, is it Ethical to shut down your business and go claim unemployment benefits to help EXPEDITE the demise of the system? I think it is, and where I would normally NEVER be a looter (I have never collected unemployment in my life, despite being eligible at times, and having paid in...) I would CERTAINLY load up the truck at the point that the system needed to break!
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  • Posted by term2 6 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I would agree that intelligent evil is far more dangerous than stupid evil. I think that human brains have a substantial difference one to another in terms of the relative strength of emotion and thinking. Hard to explain, but I compare it to a computer program (which is basically what the brain responds to) where some things take precedence over other things. Computer programs can be overridden, as can human brains. When decisions need to be made, emotions can be the first thing that a person considers especially if they are strong.

    I am not a jordan peterson, but I bet the data is there somewhere for what I am saying.
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  • Posted by term2 6 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I would say that there is another significant difference in genetic makeup that controls the relative strength of emotion and thinking in people. That probably has a lot more to do with voting than anything else.
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  • Posted by term2 6 years, 9 months ago
    Jordan Peterson is really cool. He just says it like it is, and he can back up what he says. No PC here !

    As to IQ, its kind of obvious that smarter people are better able to compete in a general society than people who are not as smart. I think smartness has two elements- the first being genetic in terms of how the brain works and how fast it works, and the second being cultural in terms of an element of being taught to think early in life.

    I am not sure how these two things compare to each other in importance, but in the end the smarter people get farther in life.

    As to being ethical, I would say that the smarter people just have more ability to be ethical or unethical.
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  • Posted by ycandrea 6 years, 9 months ago
    It is no surprise to me that being intelligent does not make you are wise or moral. It is all in how you choose to use your intellect.
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  • Posted by GaryL 6 years, 9 months ago
    I don't buy it. I worked my career in a profession that was overloaded with highly educated idiots. You can have book smarts and pig skins hanging all over your office but if you lack basic common sense and street smarts you really are just a smart dummy. My wife is in a job that requires a 4 year degree or the equivalent experience. Her co workers do have the degrees yet she has only a HS education and is the department director over all of them. The CEO knows that 15 years of doing it is way better than 4 years of book learning how to but never working at it to get it done. I worked with guys who graduated college with a 4.0 GPA from a good school who could not pass a promotional exam. Education and IQ are fine as long as they can be translated into real life functionality.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 6 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I play a lot of role playing games and I think this was one area in which Gary Gygax (the creator of the legendary Dungeons & Dragons series) got it exactly right. He identified two innate characteristics and called one Intelligence and one Wisdom. I think that there are a lot of "smart" people out there in the world. I note that wisdom is in very short supply. Why? Because wisdom is the ability to think through one's actions and their ramifications by not only incorporating observation but experience. A smart person writes books about things they thing they understand. A wise person reads books about things they don't understand.

    “A true genius admits that he/she knows nothing.”
    --Albert Einstein
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  • Posted by TheOldMan 6 years, 9 months ago
    I always consider IQ to be similar to the markings on a measuring cup - you still have to fill it with something.
    Good judgement comes from living through the consequences of your poor decisions.
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  • Posted by ewv 6 years, 9 months ago
    As Ayn Rand observed, intelligent evil is far more dangerous. And it ought to be obvious to everyone that intelligence does not guarantee virtue. Rationality, honesty, integrity, productivity, etc. must be chosen and their meaning must be understood and pursued by choice. Intelligence does not guarantee proper choices; it does not guarantee even the basic choice to focus one's mind instead of evading.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 6 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    True, continually voting for leftest/free stuff, with no consequences, where the many are punished and the few are favored.
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  • Posted by 6 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm not aware of any objective test for that, other than trial and error. In the case of voting it's repeated error and no punishment.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 6 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Conversely, one could have an IQ of 140 but cannot or does not integrate that information, they are likely to have an absence in ethical, moral and mutual behavior.
    The key here, as far as I see it, is integration. Integration enables one to self introspect, all the facets of awareness are integrated, therefore one is most likely to have a strong conscience controlling their behavior; and that control system seems to be universal.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 6 years, 9 months ago
    I will listen tomorrow, thanks Freedom.

    But to interject for a moment: This is why I surmise that IQ is mostly, (depending on the test), a measure of compartmentalized information, and what truly makes a person smart, a person with reason and wisdom, is integration. the ability to Integrate comes with having and using the Mind and once one has and uses his mind comes to know his conscience.
    It comes with the territory in my observation.

    One could have an IQ of 100 or even 120 and posses wisdom, ethics and...create value, if they can integrate information.
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  • Posted by Solver 6 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    They do have some data on past voters who had zero IQ, but it is a small sampling comparatively.
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  • Posted by 6 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Since there is no control on whether a voter applies cognitive ability to the voting decision, I suspect there is little if any statistical correlation.
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  • Posted by Solver 6 years, 9 months ago
    So regardless if you have a high IQ or low IQ, you still could consider yourself morally superior to your inferiors. I wonder how it predicts how individuals will vote?
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